Wistlawudus & Moravias

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Here are some topics of interest from the British Isles.  The source for these words may be Scandinavian Norse or Slavic.  If it were Slavic, it should be remembered that the there were Slavs in the various Viking raiding parties that seized vast tracts of Britain so no great surprise there.  Of course, if these names were older…

Wistla Water

This is an outtake from the 1654 map of Orkneys and Shetlands.  The area of interest is the Shetland island of Mainland (yes, they weren’t very creative back then).  Here is the first picture:

shetland

Now take a look at this one where we highlighted some interesting water names:

wassers

For another Wiesle in the Alps see here.  And what of Tresta?  Croce sound? Twar?  What is the Vo. exactly to stand for?

Moravia & Rosia

We should note, however, that interesting names abound in Britain (particularly in the North), such as that of the Lugi or the Smertes.  Or for that matter of the Iceni and its leader Boudicca.  We raised some questions before on this topic and will return to it but in the meantime.. on a more lighter note:

Enjoy the first printed – surviving – map of Scotland (so called Paulo Forlani Map) dated to 1566-1570 but based on earlier materials (of George Lily and Hector Boece); another version apparently exists in the Netherlands:

moravia1

Now, Nessa (Nysa) can be explained with “wet” (German nass) albeit, if that explanation were to be accepted, a name like “wet river” does not exactly differentiate that body of water from any other… but it leads to… Loch Ness – hence Nessa?  But why is Loch Ness so ness as compared to other lochs?  What’s the differentiating factor here?  (does this explain the need for a sea-monster to put the place on the map?).

Rossia could be explained by the presence of Roslagen Vikings among the invaders…

Moravia – a Latinization of the name for the land next to Murray Firth.  But what does “murray” then really mean? It may come from Muireb (or Moreb) or, earliest form (736): Moerheb.  Note too the Norse Merrhaefi.  Or for that matter the Polish murawa or, if you want to get creative, marchew; after all carrots sit in the ground.  Is it wet ground?

carrot

What’s interesting, however, is that here we have all three such names right next to each other – a situation which would be easily explainable in Eastern Europe but is a remarkable coincidence in Britain.

And this before we even get to Britain’s Pennines range.  If you thought the the Pyrenees were fun, wait till these hillocks come under consideration.

 

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April 17, 2016

The Few Slavs of John of Biclar

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John of BiclaroBiclar, or Biclarum (circa 540 – after 621), also Iohannes Biclarensis, was a Visigoth chronicler born in Santarem in Portugal (Scallabis).  He was educated in Constantinople.  Upon his return to Lusitania, the locals tried to draft him for the Arian Church.  When he refused, he was banished by Leovigild, the King of the Visigoths. After Leovigild’s death in 586, John founded the Benedictine monastery of Biclar(o) where he became abbot.  Thereafter, he became a bishop of Gerona/Girona.

visigoti

He took part in many church synods.  His chronicle covering the years 567 to 591 is arranged according to the reigns of Byzantine Emperors and Visigothic kings and is a continuation of the chronicle of Victor of Tunnuna   (Chronicon continuans Victorem Tunnunensem).  Various editions exist:

  • Hendrik Canisius (Ingolstadt, 1600) (pictures below are from that version);
  • Scaliger in “Thesaurus Temporum” (Leyden, 1606);
  • Migne, P.L., LXXII (1849);
  • Mommsen in “Mon. Germ. Hist.: Auct. ant.”, XI (1893), 211-220;

The table below is from Mommsen as are the dates (though, admittedly, they are not exact) – which refer to reigns of the Visigothic King Leovigild (568-586) and the Byzantine Emperors Justin II (565-574) and Tiberius II (574-582)).

ordering

Chronicle of John of Biclar

YEAR 576?

ANNO X IVSTINI IMP. QVI EST LIVVIGILDI REGIS VIII
ANNVS

1. Badurius gener Iustini principis in Italia a Longobardis praelio vincitur, et non multo plus post inibi vitae finem accepit.

2. Romanus filius Anagasti Patricii magister militiae gentis Suanorum regem vivum cepit, quem cum suo thesauro, uxore et filiis Constantinopolim adducit et provinciam eius in Romanorum
dominium redigit.

3. Liuuigildus (Leovegildus) rex in Gallaecia Suevorum fines conturbat: et a rege Mirone per legatos rogatus pacem eis pro parvo tempore tribuit.

4. Sclavini in Thracia multas urbes Romanorum pervadunt, quas depopulatas vacuas reliquary   

[The Sclavini took many Roman cities in Thrace which they have left depopulated and empty or (if you prefer Joan Rowe Ferry’s translation) The Sclavanians spread through many Roman cities in Thrace, which they leave ravaged and deserted]

1B

Whoever made the side notes obviously disagrees with Mommsen’s timing

5. Abares (Avares) litora maris captiose obsident et navibus litora Thraciae navigantibus satis infesti sunt.

6. Post Benedictum Romanae ecclesiae Pelagius iunior ordinatur episcopus: praeest annis XI.

YEAR 581

ANNO V TIBERII, QVI EST LIVVIGILDI (LEOVEGILDI) XIII ANNVS

1. Longobardi in Italia regem sibi ex suo genere eligunt vocabulo Autharic, cuius tempore et milites Romani omnino sunt caesi et terminos Italiae Longobardi sibi occupant.

2. Sclavinorum gens Illyricum et Thracias vastat. 

[The nation of the Sclavenes laid waste to Illyria and Thrace or (as per Rowe Ferry) The people of the Sclavanians ravage Illyrica and Thrace]

2B

3. Liuuigildus  (Leovegildus) rex partem Vasconiae occupat et civitatem, quae Victoriaco (Victroriacum) nuncupatur, condidit.

4. Tiberius imperator Mauricio Magistro militum Orientis filiam suam in coniugium tradit.

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April 16, 2016

John of Ephesus on the Slavs

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Here are some early mentions of Slavs in the work of John of Ephesus.  The events take place during the reigns of:

  • Justin II (emperor 565-574)
  • Tiberius II  (emperor 574–582)
  • Maurice (emperor 582-602)

John of Ephesus (or of Asia) (circa 507 – circa 588) was a leader of the non-Chalcedonian Syriac-speaking Church in the sixth century.  In his Ecclesiastical History (Third Part) he says (R. Payne Smith translation):

justinII

[Book III.25.] “The merciful Tiberius [Tiberius II Constantine] during the whole time he was Caesar in Justin’s [Justin II] lifetime, because of the king himself having fallen a prey to various maladies, was entirely occupied with the wars which surrounded him on all sides: for, besides the struggle with the Persians, he was constantly threatened in every direction by those other barbarian tribes which had risen up against the powerful empire of the Romans: and after the death of Justin, they pressed upon him with still greater violence, especially the accursed tribes of the Slavonians, and those who, from their long hair, are called Avars. For after he became sole ruler, they gave him neither rest nor breathing-time, but constantly wars and rumours of war multiplied around him: so that many, both of the chiefs and the commonalty, used to express their sorrow for him, and say, ‘Verily the kingdom has fallen to his lot in a time of trial and in evil days; for day and night he is anxious, and full of care how best he can gather troops from every quarter, and send them to maintain these incessant wars.'”

[Book V.19.] “One relative, however, needs more particular mention, namely, Domitian, metropolitan of Melitene. Already Maurice, when sent by Tiberius to the East with the title of count, had shewn his devotion to the interests of his family by making him bishop of Melitene in Cappadocia: and when, after spending a period of two years more or less in the East, he had returned to the capital, and been made king, immediately Domitian hastened to him, and became his counsellor and most intimate adviser, and the person who thought for him, and encouraged him in all the severe and painful difficulties with which he had to contend in the wars which pressed upon him on all sides, with the heathen and Magian people of the Persians, and the barbarous and savage tribes who came from the ends of the world, and are called Avars, and also with the Slavonians.  And in all these difficulties the bishop of Melitene was the king’s comforter and counsellor, although he was still but a young man.  He was however thoroughly imbued with the opinions of the council of Chalcedon and of Leo. The great and important matters then, which pressed upon the empire on all sides, he laid before the king, together with his advice; and he let him settle them as he chose, and so he continues to do to this day.”

tiberiusII

[Book VI. 25.] “That same year, being the third after the death of king Justin [A.D. 581], was famous also for the invasion of an accursed people, called Slavonians, who overran the whole of Greece, and the country of the Thessalonians, and all Thrace, and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their own without fear. And four years have now elapsed, and still, because the king is engaged in the war with the Persians, and has sent all his forces to the East, they live at their ease in the land, and dwell in it, and spread themselves far and wide as far as God permits them, and ravage and burn and take captive.  And to such an extent do they carry their ravages, that they have even ridden up to the outer wall of the city, and driven away all the king’s herds of horses, many thousands in number, and whatever else they could find.  And even to this day, being the year 895 [A. D. 584], they still encamp and dwell there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn: and they have grown rich in gold and silver, and herds of horses, and arms, and have learnt to fight better than the Romans, though at first they were but rude savages, who did not venture to shew themselves outside the woods and the coverts of the trees; and as for arms, they did not even know what they were, with the exception of two or three javelins or darts.”

maurice

Conclusion by Payne Smith (after Book VI, Chapter 36 which is the last preserved one):

“Of the remaining thirteen chapters of the book but a fragment exists, and it contains little more than is told us in the headings, all of which are still extant.  From them we learn that an embassy was sent to Maurice, now emperor of the Romans, to sue for peace; and that he in return sent an ambassador to the Persian court, which was followed by a second embassy to Constantinople. The fortieth chapter contained a statement of the mutual losses sustained by the two states of Rome and Persia during the ruinous wars occasioned by the weak policy of Justin: and this was succeeded by an account of the rise and subsequent decline of the kingdom of the Roman Arabs, occasioned possibly to some extent by the defection of several of their leading princes to the Persians.  Next, there was the capture of some famous Marzbans, who were sent as prisoners of war to the capital. The forty-fourth chapter detailed the history of another war, waged probably with the Persians in the third year (of Maurice), and of the victory which God gave the Romans. The next three treated of the ‘base, barbarian, long-haired people,’ called Avars, who invaded Thrace, captured many cities, and numerous forts, and carried terror and alarm to the very walls of Constantinople, at a time, when, says our historian, we ourselves were there. The forty-eighth chapter gave an account of the manner in which the land was taken possession of, and wasted by the Slavonians: and the forty-ninth, and last, recorded the destruction of the city of Anchialus, and described the warm baths there.”

“It seems plain that these chapters were penned one by one as the events themselves occurred, and probably they were brought to an abrupt conclusion by the death of the good old man who wrote them.”

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April 15, 2016

Jassa of the Veneti

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A claim has been made that the Veneti worshipped – as their Sun God – Jason or maybe Jasion/Iasion.  This claim, if true, would, combined with the reports of the Polish God Jassa and the Czech God Chasson (identified, at least in Jan Rosa’s Grammatica Linguae Bohemicae, as a sun God, that is Sol or Phoebus or Astron), suggest that at least these two nations were in fact connected with the Veneti or perhaps descend from the Veneti.

turagon

What’s more, because the claim was made regarding the Adriatic Veneti, this would not only further strengthen the Slavic-Venetic connection but, in fact, expand it all the way to Venice – no doubt helping “Venetologists” such as Matej Bor.

But, as regards the Adriatic Veneti at least, is the claim true?

What Says Strabo?

Strabo does say (Book V, I):

“And in the very recess of the Adriatic there is also a temple of Diomedes that is worth recording, “the Timavum“; for it has a harbour, and a magnificent precinct, and seven fountains of potable waters which immediately empty into the sea in one broad, deep river.  According to Polybius, all the fountains except one are of salt water, and what is more, the natives call the place the source and mother of the sea.  But Poseidonius says that a river, the Timavus, runs out of the mountains, falls down into a chasm, and then, after running underground about a hundred and thirty stadia, makes its exit near the sea.”

timava

Timavus – the underground portion stretches quiteaways before getting to the waters of the Adriatic

“As for the dominion of Diomedes in the neighbourhood of this sea, not only the “Islands of Diomedes” bear witness thereto, but also the historical accounts of the Daunii and Argos Hippium, which I shall relate insofar as they may be historically useful; but I must disregard most of the mythical or false stories, as, for example, the stories of Phaethon, and of the Heliades that were changed into poplar-trees near the Eridanus (the Eridanus that exists nowhere on earth, although it is spoken of as near the Padus), and of the Electrides Islands that lie off the Padus, and of the guinea-fowls on them; for not one of these things is in that region, either.  It is an historical fact, however, that among the Heneti certain honours have been decreed to Diomedes; and, indeed, a white horse is still sacrificed to him, and two precincts are still to be seen — one of them sacred to the Argive Hera and the other to the Aetolian Artemis.”

And later (Book VI, III):

“Now, however, Argyrippa is smaller; it was called Argos Hippium at first, then Argyrippa, and then by the present name Arpi.  Both are said to have been founded by Diomedes.  And as signs of the dominion of Diomedes in these regions are to be seen the Plain of Diomedes and many other things, among which are the old votive offerings in the temple of Athene at Luceria — a place which likewise was in ancient times a city of the Daunii, but is now reduced — and, in the sea near by, two islands that are called the Islands of Diomedes, of which one is inhabited, while the other, it is said, is desert; on the latter, according to certain narrators of myths, Diomedes was caused to disappear, and his companions were changed to birds, and to this day, in fact, remain tame and live a sort of human life, not only in their orderly ways but also in their tameness towards honorable men and in their flight from wicked and knavish men.  But I have already mentioned the stories constantly told among the Heneti about this hero and the rites which are observed in his honour.  It is thought that Sipus also was founded by Diomedes, which is about one hundred and forty stadia distant from Salapia … In Daunia, on a hill by the name of Drium, are to be seen two hero-temples: one, to Calchas, on the very summit, where those who consult the oracle sacrifice to his shade a black ram and sleep in the hide, and the other, to Podaleirius, down near the base of the hill, this temple being about one hundred stadia distant from the sea; and from it flows a stream which is a cure-all for diseases of animals.  In front of this gulf is a promontory, Garganum, which extends towards the east for a distance of three hundred stadia into the high sea; doubling the headland, one comes to a small town, Urium, and off the headland are to be seen the Islands of Diomedes.  This whole country produces everything in great quantity, and is excellent for horses and sheep; but though the wool is softer than the Tarantine, it is not so glossy.  And the country is well sheltered, because the plains lie in hollows.  According to some, Diomedes even tried to cut a canal as far as the sea, but left behind both this and the rest of his undertakings only half-finished, because he was summoned home and there ended his life.  This is one account of him; but there is also a second, that he stayed here till the end of his life; and a third, the aforesaid mythical account, which tells of his disappearance in the island; and as a fourth one might set down the account of the Heneti, for they too tell a mythical story of how he in some way came to his end in their country, and they call it his apotheosis.”

You can read more about the Veneti of the Adriatic here.

So we seem to have the worship of Diomedes by the Veneti…

Is Diomedes Jason?

Well, for many years Jason was equated with Diomedes…

In 1711, Abbe Antoine Banier claimed that “[Chiron] taught [Jason] the Sciences, which he himself professed, especially Medicine, and gave him for that Reason the name of Jason, instead of Diomedes, which he had before.”

This was repeated as fact by many subsequent scholars.  What is the source of this information?

Apparently, it is this:

“When Jason became a man and had learned from Chiron the healing art, he was called Jason, having first been called Dolomedes.”

This is from the 1581 edition of a Natali Conti Mythologiae.  However, the first edition of the same (in the year 1567) did not contain the last clause.

It seems that Conti added this, misreading

Winifred Warren Wilson claimed in 1910 that in the 1581 edition Conti added new material (from Apollonius of Rhodes), and misread the Greek word δολόμηδες (“crafty”) as a proper name and then attributed it to Jason – as a proper name of Jason’s.  And then Dolomedes became Diomedes.  How?  Well, apparently there was a misprint of Diomedes for Dolomedes in subsequent editions of Comes’ treatise.  More on this on a site by this guy (yes, he is Jason too) who claims that there are no ancient sources equating Jason with Diomedes.

If this is true then the story ends right there and the temple to Diomedes is not any temple to Jason.  And so the Slovenian Venetologists lose (at least one argument)…

Enter the Dragon

But… did you know that (according to the website for the Slovenian capital Ljubljana:

“Once upon a time, Greek hero Jason and his Argonaut comrades stole a golden fleece, the coat of a golden ram, from the King of Colchis on the Black Sea. On board the Argo they fled their pursuers and found themselves at the mouth of the River Danube instead of going south towards the Aegean Sea and their Greek homeland. There was no way back, so they went on, up the Danube and then along the River Ljubljanica. They had to stop at the source of the Ljubljanica and overwintered here. They then took the Argo apart and in the spring carried it on their shoulders to the Adriatic coast, where they put it back together again and went on their way. According to the legend, on their arrival between what is now Vrhnika and Ljubljana, the Argonauts came across a large lake with a marsh alongside. Here lived a terrible marsh dragon that Jason killed after a heroic struggle. The monster would have been the Ljubljana dragon. It is said that Jason should have been the first real Ljubljana citizen.

ljub

Of course, Jason actually did encounter a dragon – Ladon (Lada?) – who had just been defeated by Hercules but was still twitching (Apollonius of Rhodes’ Argonautica).  And is there any connection to Krak of Wawel?

After all we do know that the word a..i.su.n. (accusative) for “God” does appear among the Venetic inscriptions.  And does Iazze really mean “I” (ia se)?

So how old is this Slovenian legend?  Older than Conti’s misprint or not?

And here is another interesting thing: a river mentioned in ancient times (including later in the Getica ad Pontem Sontii) that bears a striking similarity to Jason’s name: its Slovene name is Soča but, at various times, it went in antiquity by AesontiusSontius, and Isontius then – as per Marko Snoj – super Sontium (in 507–11), a flumine Isontio (1028), in Lisonçum (1261), an die Ysnicz (1401), and an der Snicz (ca. 1440).

Snoj suggests that the Latin (and Romance) Sontius was probably based on the substrate (!) name *Aisontia, presumably derived from the PIE root *Hei̯s- ‘swift, rushing’, referring to a quickly moving river (or the pre-Romance (!) root *ai̯s- ‘water, river’.

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April 13, 2016

Dragon Gods?

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The below is just a curious comparison.  On the left is one of Rybakov’s “Jashers”.  On the right, is a find from  the Saint Ninian’s Isle treasure (dated to about 800 AD).

jases

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April 9, 2016

Slavs in der Schweiz

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The monastery of Saint Martin of Tours at Muri is in the Canton of Aargau, in the Diocese of Basel (previously Diocese of Constance).  It was founded in 1027 by Radbot, Count of Habsburg. This is its coat of arms.
murizHa! You say, clearly Muri does refer to walls in Slavic, i.e., “mury”.  That being the case the word comes from Latin (perhaps via German – Mauer = wall).  Consequently, the name of the town – by itself – proves little.

venetia

Yet what is interesting are the Acta Murensia (Acta fundationis monasterii Murensis).  These Acta are the story of the founding of the abbey.  They were written by an unknown Benedictine monk sometime about the year 1160 though they appear to be based, at least in part, on earlier sources.  They are mostly known for the description of the early history of the Hapsburgs who were the sponsors of the Abbey.  The Muri city archives contain a manuscript copy of the original Acta which copy was written about 1400.  This seems to be the only copy of the Acta.  Already Šafárik noticed that the Acta contain a curious passage which begins as  follows:

Althuesern primitus silva fuit, sed exstirpata est ab hominibus [homines?], qui vocantur Winida

hermz

This translates, roughly to:

“Althuesern was originally a forest but it was cut down by people called the Wends [Winidi]”

So is it the case that we had Slavs deep in Switzerland?  If so, when did they get there?

hermanz

We note too that among the towns listed below the mention of the Wends are the following:

  • Mure (our Muri);
  • Butwil
  • Wolen
  • Hermenswil
  • Althuesern
  • Birchi

All of these look either unquestionably (AlthuesernHermenswil) or possibly German except for Mure and Wolen.  Wolen and its variations we see all over Slavic lands.  We also see Zwolen in Slavic countries or Zwolle in the Netherlands (from Suole (that is true) which, in turn, comes supposedly from “swollen” like a “hill” (which seems rather a stretch or, if you will, a swelling of truth)).

klosterz

Secrets

This is the complete edition from Fridolin Kopp’s 1750 edition of the text (Vindiciae Actorum Murensium).

kopp

This was noticed already in the 19th century with such Slavic names as Khunitz, Bumplitz, Czernez, Gradetz, Krimentza, Luc, Visoye or Grona.  Ketrzynski himself argued that Constance’s original name was Kostnitz (this is far less certain).

For other Slavic names in the Swiss area see here.

mit

Mit einer banier rôtgevar,
daß was mit wîße durch gesniten
hûte nâch wendischen siten

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April 8, 2016

Solawa or Sala

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Incidentally, Ketrzynski argued that the Saale – known earliest by the name Solava/Souava (hence Solaviane/Slaviane/Souaviane/Souavi?) – was also known by another Slavic name, i.e., Sala (presumably a shorter version of Solava).  Similar names are also present in Poland and elsewhere.  But what was the basis for this claim?

Apparently, on the following note in the Annales Reinhardsbrunnenses (Annals of the Reinhardsbrunn monastery) (2nd half of the 12th century):

brunnsenbrummsen

These monks were little people but their records were impeccable

Sicque in orientalem Saxoniam provectus, super ripam fluminis, quod Slavica lingua Sale dicitur…”

“Thus, in eastern Saxony he advanced, on the bank of a river which in the Slavic language is called Sala…”

annalespic

 

annales

Here is Reinhardsbrunn – close enough to Slav lands so the monks probably knew what they were talking about :

reinhardsbrunn

Now our favoroute cantankerite Aleksander Brueckner, much as he did with the Rura, had an irrefutable argument against Ketrzynski’s interpretation:

“I am likewise not impressed [!] by the other citations [of Ketrynski’s], for example [the above] – what could this in the best case prove?”

With logicians like this, no wonder that Slavic studies made such great progress at the turn of the prior century.

This from Ketrzynski:

sasisAnd Muellenhoff… oh Muellenhoff… we will have something to say about his “emendations” soon.

mullenkopf

Kopfzerbrechung in progress

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April 7, 2016

On the Rura

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rurhren

Here is a map of the rivers Lippe (Lippa in the Ravenna Cosmography but earlier in Roman sources Lupia) (in the north) and Ruhr (in the south) noting Soest and Paderborn (Bor? Brn?) from our prior post plus adding in blue the location of Kamen as well as of Cracow (no longer present but see here or here for old maps).

rurhen

But why add the Ruhr? The German word may have been Rohr meaning “tube”.  The Slavic word for a “pipe” is “rura” and the name of this river in Slavic is, to this day, Rura. Now, to add an overlay to this, in Latin “rus” means countryside/village – e.g., rustic.  And, of course, the word rural has the same connotation.  Consequently, it is rather difficult to tell what came from what. and how.

What is interesting however is that a 13th century history of a monastery at Waldsassen (Fundatio Monasterii Waldsassensis) says this:

“There is a stream in parts of Westphallia that is commonly called the Southern or Slavic Rura.”

“Quidam torrens est in partibus Westfalle, qui vulgariter Rura Australis seu Slavica nuncupatur.

sassen

Waldsassen Abbey – what secrets does its library contain?

Now, Waldsassen Abbey is on today’s border with the Czech lands so the inhabitants would have known what a Slav is.

Moreover, the name of the river was first recorded as Rura (in 796 as per Hans Krahe – see his “Unsere ältesten Flussnamen”).  One does not need to have a doctorate to recognize that Slavic languages  typically produce an -a ending for a river.  The Germanic, on the other hand, do not.  The reason for this seems rather simple – that is in Germanic (to the extent a version of Germanic preserves articles) the name Fluss is masculine.  In Slavic, reka/rzeka is feminine.  Thus we have Wisla (but Weichsel), Odra (but Oder), Nysa (but Neisse), Lipa (but Lippe), Wezera (but Weser), Tamiza (but Thames) and so forth and so on.  And this is true for Rura (or maybe Vira as per below) (but Rohr, Roehre, Ruhr).  We know the name Rura in that form is not Germanic but maybe it’s Celtic?     (And was there a northern Rura?  In the Netherlands perhaps? Check out Dutch river names.)

sassen1

But then why would it be called a Slavic Rura?  The only conceivable reason seems to be that there were Slavs somewhere in the neighborhood of the Rura.  If the river name was Celtic then it must have gotten pretty crowded there by the Rura with all the Germans and Slavs coming in…

rura

So when the Masurians settled in the Ruhr in the 19th century, could it be said that they were just coming home? A kind of a silent “Wiedereroberung”?

Surely, there must be an explanation that makes sense?  Well, the choleric Aleksander Brueckner presented a very strong argument to dispel any notion of the Slavic nature of the river:

“I won’t even deign to guess, where this crazy combination [Slavic Rura] may have come from.”

And there you have it ladies & gents.

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April 4, 2016

Reports of Slavs from Muslim Lands Part VI – Soest & Paderborn

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Abu Yahya Zakariya’ ibn Muhammad al-Qazwini or Zakarya Qazvini ‎(probably dated to the 13th century) was an Arab or Persian (from Kazvin) traveler.  His reports (called the Monument of Places and History of the Servants of God  or Athar al-bilād wa-akhbar al-‘ibād) were partly printed by Georg Jacob in 1896 (see “Ein arabischer Berichterstatter aus dem 10 Jahrhundert über Fulda, Schleswig, Soest, Paderborn und andere Städte des Abendlandes”).  As the title suggests these reports are dated to the 10th century (apparently including reports from Al-Turtushi, Al-Udri, Al-Bekri).

kazvin

In his Book 7 al-Qazwini describes the neighborhood of Soest, the country of Mieszko and then of Paderborn.  Here is a map showing the location of Soest and Paderborn:

soest

And here is the text (we include Jacob’s translation):

Soest

“Schuschit [Soest] is a town in the land of the Slavs.  There lies a salty spring, while there otherwise is no salt in that area.  When the people need salt, they take water from this source, fill with it a pot and set it on a stone oven and make a great fire underneath so that it becomes thick and turbid.  Then it sits until it becomes cold and turns into hard, white salt.  In this way is salt made in all the lands of the Slavs.”

slawen

Mieszko

“Mischqo [Mieszko] is a spacious town in the land of the Slavs on the shore of a lake/sea in a deep forest, which cannot be penetrated by armies.  The name of their King is Mischqo, and it [the town] is known by his name.  She is a town that is rich in grains, honey, meat and fish.  Their King has army made up of foot soldiers because horses cannot ride in his land [because of the thicket].  Also he imposes taxes in his Kingdom, so that he can pay his army for their maintenance monthly.  And in case of need he gives them steeds, saddles, bridles, weapons and all that they need.  When someone is born, whether it be a boy or a girl, the King provides for the babe.”

slawen2

“When the child becomes an adult, he marries him, if he is a man, and takes from his father bridal funds and gives it to the father of the bride and the bridal funds are very high by them [these people].  Thus, if a man has two or three daughters, he becomes rich; but if he has two or three sons he becomes poor.  The marriage/wedding occurs at the discretion of the King, not out of free will, and the King provides the pledges for the provisions and covers the costs of the wedding.  He is like a tender, caring father for his underlings.  The jealousy of their women is great in comparison to the other Turks.”

Paderborn

“Waterbrunn [Paderborn] is a town in the land of the Slavs close to the town of Schuschit [Soest].   There there is a wonderful spring called Honeyspring.*  She is to be found on a mountain in the vicinity of a forest.  Its water tastes in the beginning like honey, but then has a bile aftertaste, which had seeped into it from the trees that grow around it [the spring].”

* Methbrunnen?  So we have the Arab word for “honey” and we have the word “Meth-brunnen.”  Now the Slavic miod/med has as its counterpart in Germanic languages “mead” (e.g., OHG metu).  Both have been known to mean honey (the Slavic to this day) so no solution here seemingly.

slawen3

slawen4

So What Does This Mean?

Georg Jacob rushes to explain that Arabs used the term Saqaliba “frequently in a eider sense that our concept of ‘Slavs'” and often expanded it to cover the Germani.

Typically dismissive is also the faux-erudite German historian Aleksander Brueckner* who, in reference to al-Qazwini’s report, sneers (in a culturally “sensitive” statement) that “we know what to think of such imprecision of the Arabs” concluding that “[al-Qazwini]’s testimony is worthless.”  (We say “concluding” in the colloquial sense.  Since, as is typical of Brueckner, there is a lack of any analysis to back up his statements, his conclusion is probably better termed an “assertion.”)

* Brueckner rather pathetically claims that “we” [the “royal” we] would rather believe Caesar and Tacitus and melodramatically states that “no false translation will shake our [again, royal] conviction, if we are not to give up on these sources altogether.”  Of course, no one asked him to do that as neither Caesar nor Tacitus mention the Deutsche or the Slavs under either of those names.  Though the fact that Brueckner would trust Tacitus who never visited Germania before Arab travelers who actually did (and closer in time) speaks volumes about the nature of Brueckner’s “conviction.”  (Incidentally, Brueckner is perhaps the chief asshole of turn of the century Slavicists – a wart on the butt of Sclavinia that just won’t go away.  More on that later.)

soest

There is no reason (absent preconceived notions) to question al-Qazwini’s report.  In fact:

  • The compiler of this report interposes a reference to the Slavs of Soest and Paderborn with the report on Mieszko’s country showing intention of grouping these reports together.  Why do that, unless he thought that these were all in reference to the same people?  (No doubt if the Mieszko report preceded or followed the Soest/Paderborn report, Jacob and Brueckner would argue that they are separate parts of the reports).
  • There is little evidence of Germans being called Slavs by Arab travelers.  The only instance of that may be in Masudi’s report.  While Otto I is in fact called King of the Slavs in two reports, that description, in his case, is accurate (if confusing) – and, to be clear, he is not called a Slav himself.  In any event, what other Arab writers knew is somewhat irrelevant.  The question is this particular writer or writers.  And in all of al-Qazwini’s reports, the authors distinguish, e.g., Slavs from Franks.
  • While the reference to Slavs as Turks may be confusing, the whole report regarding Mieszko apparently comes from Ibrahim bin Yaqub’s report – the other two pieces regarding Soest and Paderborn, however, are not in bin Yaqub’s story.  And they are clear (the first one even repeating the word Slavs twice) on the Slav point.
  • Soest is of uncertain origin but if Terg-este (Triest) is supposed to mean “marketplace” (Targ-jest) and Br-est is to mean a “place where there is a shoreline” (Breg-jest) then So-est could refer to Sol-jest, i.e., “place where there is salt.”  Certainly, in keeping with “al-Qazwini”‘s report.
  • Separately, the town’s Latin name is Susatium/Susata and the Soestbach may have been called Sus-ata or *Sus-ila – whether that has anything to do with the Slavic Susli tribe should be, at least, asked.  That Þiðrekssaga makes Soest the capital of Attila is, of course, an added bonus.
  • Further, note that Gervaise of Tillsbury says the following: “Inter Saxoniam et Wasfaliam est Albis fluvius.  Est autem Wasfalia terra, cuius gentes Suevi dicuntur.”  But who were these Suevi – were they the North Suavi?  And who were the North Suavi?  Suevi, Slavs, so difficult to distinguish after all.

gervasius

  • both Soest and Paderborn lie in a very interesting area of West Germany, namely between the Lippe (Lippa) and the Ruhr.  We’ve already mentioned that the former river has interesting connotations (as well as having a town called Kamen on its shores) and that not far from where the latter joins the Rhein there was once a town called Cracow… But did you know that the Ruhr itself had been called the Rura in Slavic?  Well, big deal, it still is, you say?  Except that that name was mentioned as a “Slavic Rura” for the river already in the 13th century (and it had been called the Rura in the first record of its name – in the 8th century).  But there should not have been any Slavs there, right?  So why would they have attached “Slavic” to a name of that river?

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April 4, 2016

Yes-Iris?

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We discussed some strange connections/explanations of Jassa/Jesza.  See for example here.  There are, of course, others.  Thus, for example, there is the Greek-Roman Plutarch (ΠλούταρχοςPloútarkhos) (circa 45 AD – 125 AD) in his “Isis and Osiris“:

plutarch

Hyes or Yes?

“It is proper to identify Osiris with Dionysos…  They say that the sun and moon do not use chariots, but boats in which to sail round in their courses; and by this they intimate that the nourishment and origin of these heavenly bodies is from moisture. They think also that Homer, like Thales, had gained his knowledge from the Egyptians, when he postulated water as the source and origin of all things; for, according to them, Oceanus is Osiris, and Tethys is Isis, since she is the kindly nurse and provider for all things. In fact, the Greeks call emission apousia and coition synousia, and the son (hyios) from water (hydor) and rain (hysai); Dionysus also they call Hyes since he is lord of the nature of moisture; and he is no other than Osiris.  In fact, Hellanicus seems to have heard Osiris pronounced Hysiris by the priests, for he regularly spells the name in this way, deriving it, in all probability, from the nature of Osiris and the ceremony of finding him.  That Osiris is identical with Dionysus who could more fittingly know than yourself, Clea? For you are at the head of the inspired maidens of Delphi, and have been consecrated by your father and mother in the holy rites of Osiris.”

(see also the constellation Hyades)

Now the H-yes may also be a Yes for the “H” sound  was indicated by a little sign in the upper right hand corner of the Y, i.e., a smear mark could in theory have been interpreted as an “H” addition.  This, of course, is speculation but a review of the oldest manuscripts could help.

More relevantly, the connection between Dionysos and Osiris seems to bring Osiris into the realm of Iasion and, of course, jesien/wiesna, etc.  As we already noted previously,  Iasion seems similar to Jesze/Chason with his female counterpart being Ceres/Demeter or Marzanna (as per Dlugosz). Whether N

Indeed, the claim of equality between Dionysos and Osiris is also made by Herodotus who also claims that the worship of Dionysos originated in Egypt (as Osiris):

“Osiris is he who is called Dionysos in the Greek tongue.” (Herodotus 2. 49, 2.144).

What did Dio-nysos mean?  We do not know but there are plenty of suggestions made by ancient authors.  Thus, for example, Diodorus Siculus (1.15) proposes “The God from Nysa“.  Others see the name as Thracian.

And where was Nysa?  Hesychius locates Nysa in Egypt, Ethiopia, or Arabia. (Lexicon 742).  Hesiod locates it “near the streams of Aegyptus” (Frag. 287) – same for the author of the first  Homeric Hymn to Dionysos and for Apollonius Rhodius (Argonautica 2.1214).  Herodotus places Nysa either in Egypt (3.97) or Arabia (3.111).  Diodorus Siculus is in agreement with the Arabic location (1.15).  For more see this excellent blog entry.

But… was Nysa a “city” as the above assume?  Or was it something else?  We know that Osiris was associated with water (see above).  And there are plenty of similar or even identical river names in Slavic lands, e.g., Nysa-Neisse).  Also notice that the sound “as/es/os” is associated with the flow of water (Ozero/Ezero/Jezioro) or, more generally, with movement.

neisse

One of them Nysas

Moreover, the Egyptians clearly identified the sky with water as in the “Barge of Ra”.  That same myth also involved Osiris and Isis.  Note that Veleda is a recipient of a Roman galley as an offering to her by the Germanic (?) tribes who captured it.  On the cult of sky “ships” in Germany – see here.

On the other hand, Osiris was incorporated into Egyptian religion only after Ra and while Osiris became one of the chief Egyptian gods, it was Ra who was the Sun god (though Osiris was part of the cyclical worship/explanation of the existence of day and night).

Also, note that the presence of Osiris in Egypt (even if the form H-yes or Ies is accepted) does not mean the derivation of Jesza from Egypt.  Both of these seem predated by the Assyrian gods and goddesses and what the source of these is, is anyone’s guess.  Given our discussion about Anatolian countries, we note that some Anatolian/Cappadocian “Syrians” were described as Leuco-Syrians or “White Syrians”.  That “Leuko” sounds like “Lecho” should not be difficult to note.  Whether these were also the Paphlagonian Veneti is another matter.

osiris

Osiris – actual footage taken by an American special mission force

We’ll let you speculate on whether Nysa has any connection with Nia and on the relationship between the titan goddess Tethys and Krok’s Tetka.

Note too that Herodotus’ Budini also worshipped Dionysos (Histories, IV, 108):

“The Budinoi are a very great and numerous race, and are all very blue-eyed and fair of skin: and in their land is built a city of wood, the name of which is Gelonos, and each side of the wall is thirty furlongs in length and lofty at the same time, all being of wood; and the houses are of wood also and the temples; for there are in it temples of Hellenic gods furnished after Hellenic fashion with sacred images and altars and cells, all of wood; and they keep festivals every other year to Dionysos and celebrate the rites of Bacchus: for the Gelonians are originally Hellenes, and they removed from the trading stations on the coast and settled among the Budinoi; and they use partly the Scythian language and partly the Hellenic. The Budinoi however do not use the same language as the Gelonians, nor is their manner of living the same.”

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April 2, 2016