Category Archives: Origins

Tollense Blues

Published Post author

We have gotten some queries re: DNA data leaking out of the Tolense valley site via a new paper. This paper is “Genomic data from an ancient European battlefield indicates on-going strong selection on a genomic region associated with lactase persistence over the last 3,000 years” by Burger & others. Apparently, the data is being interpreted quite differently by various people.

I guess a few things are in order:

First, ancient genetics are not the focus here and I’m not even close to a neophyte in these matters.

Second, as I understand it, the focus of the paper is also something entirely different – namely ancient lactose tolerance. As a result the paper does not get into the various autochtonisms, etc.

Beyond that even a quick scan suggests that, with respect to at least the Polish Suavic-autochtonic theories, the paper is neither helpful nor hurtful.

On the “down” side, the few samples that were analyzed show, on the Y-DNA side, no R1a but a few I2s and R1bs (they do show an R1 that had not been further identified).

(That said, the sample is small (the authors were able to use only 14 samples) and the Tolense battle is in Tolense, that is not in Poland. Also, I have no idea whether the I2s and R1bs are or are not ones that are nowadays commonly found among Suavs).

Beyond Y DNA, the authors look at the whole genetic package and based on that look imply that most of the samples cluster with a group the authors label “Central-Eastern European.” This group is clearly different, however, from a separate group the authors label “Slavic.” While there is some overlap, the CEE group beats out the Slavic group.

So these are not Slavs/Suavs then.

Or are they?

The authors define Slavic/Suavic to include:

  • Russian
  • Ukrainian
  • Belarusian
  • Polish
  • Sorb
  • Mordovian

This generally makes sense but there are a few quirks. Why are Mordovians included? They are (or were) not Slavic speaking. Maybe the idea is to throw everyone east of the Oder and north of the Carpathians (or at least a Carpathian line extended eastwards?). Oh, but plus the Sorbs.

For that reason presumably, Czechs and Croats are not included and neither are Bulgarians or some other populations that had had a significant Slavic footprint such as Hungarians.

On the other hand, if Sorbs are related to Serbs and, if the authors are excluding the Croats, then query should Sorbs be part of this group.

If you look at the definition the authors use for CEE, you will note this includes the following groups:

  • Albanian
  • Bulgarian
  • Romanian
  • Hungarian
  • Czech
  • German
  • French

Immediately the thing that is striking is that there may be a significant overlap with Slavic populations here. Obviously, there is the matter of Czechs. There are also Bulgarians, Hungarians and Romanians that may and do have a Slavic connection. But even if you exclude all those as coming from “south of the Carpathians”, this grouping also includes Germans some of whom may be East Germans. That East Germans should be similar to the Tolense population should surprise no one.

Further, the CEE population includes Germans and the French. But a German from Bavaria and a German from Hamburg are very different Germans. This is even before you get to East Germans… And what of the French? Which French are included? The ones from Calais or the ones from Marseille or the ones from Bordeaux?

(Other curiosities are also present – for example, the Lithuanians are grouped with Estonians and Finns).

Even taking all this into account, the authors still end up with a situation where there is an overlap between the group labeled Slavic and some Tolense individuals…

This raises a question where, for example, in the group labeled Slavic are the Poles?

If, as we might suspect (given they are the western most – aside from the Sorbs – Slavs in the grouping), they are more towards the “SW” tip of the Slavic grouping then they would overlap with a portion of the Tolense sample.

This is so even before we consider that some of the Poles may be Poles who had previously lived in what was Eastern Poland and had been resettled in the former German territories post WWII – essentially “hopscotching” over the rest of the Polish population.

Given how broadly these groups “Slavic” and “CEE” are defined, you’d want to break them up into specific countries and specifically state how the present day population samples were picked for each of those countries.

Without having any clear data with regards to these points, it is difficult to make any conclusions regarding the autochtonism of the Poles or Polabian Slavs from this sample.

This is hardly surprising however since the focus of this paper was not on questions of population movements…

I also can’t help but notice that the samples for Norway and Iceland are set so far apart from one another. Since Iceland was primarily settled from Norway how is this possible? Also, why are Croats such outliers?

Finally, note that the mt-DNA lineages in the sample do not appear to be significantly different from those of your Poles (at least to my, admittedly untrained, eye).

With that last piece of information in mind, it would behoove the various researchers of Suavic migrations to consider that R1a may have come later to the game but also that it did not greatly change the dominant DNA (other than on the paternal side obviously) nor, and this is important, perhaps even the language of the local population…

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

August 2, 2020

Polish Gods Part VI – Nos, enim Poloni, tres deos habemus, scilicet Lada, Nya, Iassa

Published Post author

It is an interesting fact that there are so many mentions of Polish Deities throughout the 15th century. I discussed some of these potential mentions here but there are many more. They appear in many sermons and this makes sense as the 1300s and 1400s were when the “Baptism” of Poland was really taking place as the church organization expanded (after years of wars and the resulting poor penetration) into the countryside. Homegrown priests began to actively preach in many villages that had previously heard little of the Gospel.  A the beginning of the 15th century Lucas of Great Kozmin was one of thfe first preachers to take notice of the beliefs of the people in his sermons. Towards the end of the 1400s when Długosz wrote his chronicle he was basing his description of the Polish Pantheon on edicts from various synods and the knowledge collected and sermons written by a umber of priests some of whom were his contemporaries and friends.

There were many such preachers who dared to mention the Names of pagan Deities. To the shame of Polish medievalists and anthropologists and religious studies student, the writings of these churchmen remain mostly unexplored.

Outside of Lucas and Długosz, few have been even noticed. In fact, the only article focused on the issue that discusses some of these other sermons, even if briefly, is Krzysztof Bracha‘s “Tria ydola Polonorum for the Green Holidays in Church Critique of the Late Middle Ages” (Tria ydola Polonorum na Zielone Świątki w krytyce kaznodziejskiej późnego średniowiecza) in “Pagan Holies – Christian Holies. The Continuation of Cultic Sites in Early Medieval Central Europe” (Sacrum pogańskie – sacrum chrześcijańskie. Kontynuacja miejsc kultu we wczesnośredniowiecznej Europie Środkowej) from 2010, edited by Krzysztof Bracha and Czesław Hadamik (this is a collection of talks presented in 2007 at a conference at Holy Cross Abbey on Holy Cross Mountain aka Bald Mountain).

In that article Bracha puts together a narrative about three principal Polish Gods using the sources we already discussed but also a few lesser known ones. One of those had been identified earlier by Agnieszka Jabłonka and two by Elżbieta Belcarzowa. However, other than noticing them these authors did not explore them further (Jabłonka was focused on the sermon and Belcarzowa was just collecting Polish glosses in Latin language sermons; neither was focused on the topic of late medieval paganism).

I thought we should include each of them here. Bracha also noticed the fact that Belcarzowa found two other examples in two separate sermons by Jan of Dąbrówka (Jan z Dąbrówki). Those mentions are included here as well.

Regarding the “tres” this too is uncertain. Długosz gives more Names. Even the below manuscripts, assuming the Names refer all to different Deities, mention Yleli/Leli, in addition to Jasza/Jesza, Łado/Łada, Nya.

Note too the mention of “Blada” below. We may be dealing with some “pale” Deity as per this writer (or perhaps with a reference to Bleda the Hun) or it could just be an error. It is interesting  though that all the above Deities may have a lunar connection (covering different phases of the perhaps). Another curious thing is that, in Latin, blada refers to “corn,” “cereal,” “grains” (zboże).

A separate topic for discussion is the fact that some of these Names may be Hungarian or at least Pannonian. Thus, Yassa appears similar to the name of the Sarmatian Jaziges. It is also the case that the Jasz people settled in Hungary in the 13th century and may have influenced Polish paganism somehow. On the other hand, the name Jesza is similar to Jesse the name of the “first Christian” (from the Hungarian Chronicle of the 12th century). Now, that is really a reference to Géza I but the Hungarian connection persists with imre Pozsonyi  being referred to as Jesza Poszony (a manager of Poland national team and later of FC Barcelona). Interestingly too, we have an intriguing potential correspondence between Ylely and the Hungarian lélek meaning “soul” (from the Proto-Finno-Ugric *lewle meaning “breath” or “soul” (also lélegzet or lehelet meaning respiration/breath) – an interesting potential overlap with the Polish Żywie or “life” and, potentially, a cognate of Dzidzileyla, DzidzilejlaDzidzilela or Didis Lela – the Polish Venus).  Lél or Lehel was a Hungarian chieftain whose (alleged) horn is now located in  “Lehel’s Horn” on display at Jászberény.  Of course, lelek is also the Polish name for the European nighjar – a bird who curiously was thought to suck on goat’s milk (suggesting that Lel & Polel were the children of (?) Dzidzilela)…

Finally, the Hungarian word for God is Isten, which is, of course, very similar to istny, istotny, istota, the Latvian Usins and, likewise, Eostre (not to mention the Anatolian Istanu though also similar to the Egyptian baboon creature Astennu which was a baboon form of Thoth the Moon Deity) but we, as is often the case here, digress.

As a side note, while the members of the Polish Catholic clergy who mentioned these Names, generally did so seemingly in the context of trying to stamp out the vestiges of the Old Faith in villages and towns, I have a gnawing feeling that the sheer number of such references may well indicate a certain patriotic desire to preserve in their homilies, that is in the only way possible, some remembrance of the old ways. Given the large quantity of medieval manuscripts now being made available online, we can hope that amateurs, though perhaps too academic researchers, will feel enabled and be encouraged to more actively pursue the quest to unearth the Suavic past.


Sermo: De s. Stephano

Polish codex from mid-15th century
sermon author unknown – likely Polish


“Nam demones vndique colebantur pro deo et adhuc signum est inter christianos, quia tunc mulieres canunt Alado, yesse, ylely etc., qui erant dyaboli hic, qui colebantur.”

“In fact the demons were everywhere worshipped as God and behold it is a [warning?] sign for Christians, because [when this happens] women are singing Alado, yesse, ylely etc., who had been the devils that were worshipped here.”

There is also the interesting mention of swadzba which suggests that this is a combination of swa as in “coming together” and dwa as in “two.”

This is from the Słownik staropolski (that is, the “Old Polish Dictionary” which contains most if not all of the Polish words appearing in manuscripts prior to 1500):

[Elżbieta Belcarzowa, “Polish Glosses in Medieval Latin Sermons” (Glosy polskie w łacińskich kazaniach średniowiecznych), part 4; above Bracha version slightly different from that]

About the Author: author unknown, likely Polish.


Sermo de Sancto Adalberto

sermon written into the codex about 1460
sermon author unknown


“Postea sanctus per Moravam convertens venit Cracoviam, post hoc ivit Gneznam et ibi duos fratres duces in fide confirmavit, quia iam fidem habuerant, sed dubiam, et ibi omnes erroneos convertit et daemonem, videlicet Niam, eiecit, cui duae partes servierunt, videlicet Cracovia et Slesia. Postea venit Sandomiriam et Mazoviam, et ibi alium demonem eieicit, vidielicet Iiassam [or Yassam]. Postea de Magna Polonia et Slesia et de provinciis circumstantibus eiecit Ladam demonem.”

“Afterwards, the Saint passed through Moravia in order to convert the land of Cracow,    and then he went to Gniezno and there confirmed in faith two brothers who were dukes and were of the faith but had fallen into doubt; and there all those that had fallen into error he converted and he cast out the demon, namely Nia, whom two lands, namely Cracow land and Silesia served. Thereafter, he went to the Sandomierz land and Mazovia and there he cast out another demon, namely Iiassa. Thereafter, he drove out the demon Lada from Great Poland and Silesia and the surrounding provinces.”

[Agnieszka Jabłonka, “The Sermon about Saint Adalbert from the Pauline [Order] manuscript from Beszowa” (Kazanie o św. Wojciechu z rękopisu paulinów w Beszowej), in “Biuletyn Biblioteki Jagiellonskiej”]

About the Author: author unknown.


Sermo: de Sancto Adalberto

codex from second half of the 15th century
sermon by Piotr of Miłosław?


From the sermon: Hodie mater ecclesia sancta recolect festum sancti Adalberti…et agitur dies eius festus per totum orben, multo magis hic in nostra Polonia.

“Et ego Deus tuus in persona vnus in essencia praeposuit hic nostris partibus Polonie sanctum martyrum Adalbertum patronum, vt eiceret tria demonia, videlicet Blada vnum, quod colebatur pro Deo in terra Cracoviensi et Yassa, quod colebatur Polonie et Nya tercium, quod colebatur in alijs terris Vngarie, Bohemie.”

“And I your God in one person [He?] placed here on our side the presence of the patron of Poland, the martyr Saint Adalbert [Vojtěch/Wojciech] to drive out three demons, namely one Blada, who was worshipped instead of God in the land of Cracow and Yassa, who was worshipped by the Poles and Nya the third, who was worshipped in other countries Hungary [and] Bohemia.”

Notice also the interesting side note.

Note too the mention of the river Saale as Solawa:

“Di/latavitque [Boleslaus] suum principatum a Zolawa // usque ad Kyow.”

Finally, here is another Life of Saint Adalbert in Lives of the Saints that features a gloss mentioning Polish Gods.

[Krzysztof Bracha, “The Sermones Dominicales et Festivales from the so-called Collection of Piotr of Miłosław” (Sermones dominicales et festivales z tzw. kolekcji Piotra z Miłosławia) in “Preaching in Late Medieval Poland” (Nauczanie kaznodziejskie w Polsce późnego średniowiecza), also by Krzysztof Bracha; also Elżbieta Belcarzowa, “Polish Glosses in Medieval Latin Sermons” (Glosy polskie w łacińskich kazaniach średniowiecznych), part 4]

About the Author: author unknown; Brueckner suspects Piotr of Miłosław.


Jan of Dąbrówka


The following appears in the codex going by the name Variae Quaestiones theologicae et sermones de tempore et de sanctis, scripti manu lohannis Dąbrówka:

“Nos enim Poloni tres deos habuimus, scilicet Lada, Nya, Iassa.”

“We, that is the Poles, had three Gods, namely Lada, Nya, Iassa.”

[Elżbieta Belcarzowa, “Polish Glosses in Medieval Latin Sermons” (Glosy polskie w łacińskich kazaniach średniowiecznych), part 3; see also Krzysztof Bracha, Tria ydola Polonorum]


The following appears in the codex with a very similar name of Varie questiones theological et sermones de tempore et de sanctis… scripti manu mgri lohannis Dąbrówka:

“Quot regna, tot ydola, imo in Polonia fuerunt tria, scilicet lada, niya, yassa.”

“Wherever there is a kingdom, there are [also] idols and in Poland there were three, namely lada, niya, yassa.”

Interestingly, this manuscript also contains a mention of the River Saale in the Suavic form Solawa:

“…Beliger, quia metas proavi sui Boleslai Pii Chabri reparavit, quia metas Polonie in Kyow et Solawa fixit.”

[Elżbieta Belcarzowa, “Polish Glosses in Medieval Latin Sermons” (Glosy polskie w łacińskich kazaniach średniowiecznych), part 3]

About the Author: The following is mostly attributable to the Belcarzowa description of the manuscriptsJan of Dąbrówka aka Jan Dąbrówka seems to have come from the village of Dąbrówka in Kuyavia. He matriculated at Cracow University in 1420 and received his bachelor (magister) degree in 1427. He held the position of the head of the rhetoric department until 1433. He received a title of doctor of decrees in 1440 and about 1449 the title of doctor of theology. He was a nine-time dean (rector) of the university. It’s assumed that he was the person responsible for the introduction of the teaching of history at the university. He wrote a commentary on the Chronicle of Master Vincentius Kadłubek. He was also a diplomat. His students included Grzegorz of Sanok and, importantly, Jan Długosz himself. Jan Dąbrówka died in 1472.

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved
July 26, 2020

Lacus Musianus Yet Again

Published Post author

Gabriel Bucelin identified the Bodensee, that is Lacus Venetus as Lacus Moesius which looks at least similar to Musianus making it a prime candidate for Jordanes’ Lacus Musianus (elsewhere Mursianus).

But, perhaps more importantly, he also delivered some interesting geographic notes on the Bodensee/south Swabia region. Here are some names of towns in the various the Catholic deaneries (or decanates) in the area. Some of these may not be Suavic. But that does not necessarily mean they are Teutonic either. Many may date to the Roman (and pre-Roman) period. Interestingly, some look Baltic or Old Prussian (or even Finnish or rather Finnic). To begin with Bucelin lists such names as these:

  • Elekow
  • Burgow
  • Tergenow
  • Tettnow
  • Ilaw (compare this with the Polish Iława (German Eylau) which was an Old Prussian town originally mentioned as Ylavia, Ylaw, and Ilow)
  • Rhynow
  • Eschentz
  • Hegnow
  • Windeck
  • Winida

Now, let’s break this down by deaneries.


Decanatus Stuelingen

  • Muchen [Mauchen]

Decanatus Waldshuett

  • Berouw

Decanatus Stockach

  • Zellin Madach

Decanatus Lindoviensis

  • Ober-Reitnow
  • Under-Reitnow
  • Liggnow
  • Betznow
  • Tannauvv
  • Laymnow


Decanatus Turingen

  • Illmansee (compare with Lake Ilmen whose name Vasmer derive from Finnic Ilmajärvi)

Decanatus Sancti Galli

  • Goslovv
  • Herisovv
  • Lustnovv
  • Hennow


Decanatus Wyl. in Turgovia

  • Kromnovv
  • Nesslauvv (!)
  • Unpinovv
  • Immolin

Decanatus Elgovv

  • Ellgovv
  • Kromnauvv ?
  • Ellsovv
  • Tennicka

Decanatus Winterthur

  • Kottbos (compare the Sorb Chóśebuz whose German name is Cottbus)

Decanatus Thuriensis

  • Ussnovv
  • Jannen

Decanatus Wetzicken

  • Wetziken (Baltic?)
  • Ustra
  • Ryssickon
  • Bubiskhen (Baltic? Suavic?)
  • Yllnovv
  • Gossovv
  • Seegreben ?


Decanatus Regensperg

  • Klingnovv
  • Tellickon
  • Wissiken
  • Lengnovv

Decanatus Bremgarttensis

  • Stelliken (Baltic? but also have the Vandal Stilicho and Uli Stielike, seemingly a German version of a name that otherwise appears only in Eastern Europe)
  • Kinnovv

Decanatus Mellingensis

  • VVindisch
  • Wolen

Decanatus Hochdorff

  • Berova

Decanatus Willisgovv

  • VVillisgovv
  • Brittnovv
  • Metznovv

Decanatus Lucernensis

  • Gessovv

Decanatus Arauvv

  • Kollickon
  • Winicken
  • Tullicken
  • Berovv
  • Kulin
  • Raittnovv


Decanatus Wynoviensis

  • Winovv

Decanatus Munsingensis

  • Signovv
  • Woreuu ?
  • Langnovv
  • Brienz ?

Decanatus Basileensis sive Wisenthaal

  • Tergernovv
  • VVittlickon
  • Ottlickon
  • VVitnovv
  • Tottnovv
  • VVarnovv


Decanatus Newvvenburgensis

  • Zinnicken
  • Liela
  • Bellicken

Decanatus Brysacensis

  • VVitnovv

Decanatus Fryburgensis

  • Siglovv
  • Lechen ?

Decanatus Rottvillanus

  • Rainhartsovv (owner was German)!

Decanatus Horb, sive Dornstetten

  • Hoppfovv ?

Decanatus Reuttligensis

  • Hannow

Decanatus Esslingen

  • Sirnovv

Decanatus Kirchaimensis

  • Dietizow

Decanatus Geppingensis

  • Durnow
  • Turndow

Decanatus Laubheimensis

  • Russin ad Kiltissin
  • Schwendi

Decanatus Wurzachensis

  • Winden

Decanatus Sulgoviensi

  • Cappell in Buchovv

Decanatus Ysnensis

  • Ysni

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 26, 2020

Worshipping the Sun or the Deity of the Sun?

Published Post author

Here are three examples of potential divine Sun worship in Central Europe. The first comes from Mecklenburg. The second from Silesia. The second from Baltic Prussia. Whether these are examples of worshipping a God like Jasien or just of the Sun is debatable.

Tollense

(This is by the University of Greifswald’s J. Krueger)

Grodziszcze

This picture comes from Altschlesien. The item itself from Grodziszcze (German Gross Gräditz).  The magazine describes this as one of a number found in the old Suavic burg wall. Interestingly, Grodziszcze is one of the oldest villages in Silesia. The author of the Altschlesien article dates this and other items found in the same location to the 6th or 7th century (though, part of the reason is that he tries to prove their “Germanisch” character).

Of course, I wrote about similar objects already here, here, here, here or here.

Prussia

Here are some examples from Prussia (except for the sculpture on the left which represents, apparently, the Gallic Esus), from Vladimir Kulakov’s work.


Sun veneration was common among the Suavs too, of course. However, whether the Sun itself was seen as a Deity or simply a manifestation of a divine presence is another matter altogether. Of course, as we well know there is a (rather late) Czech source that connects Chasson/sive Jassen (i.e., the Polish Yassa/Jessa/Jesza) the Latin Sol, Phoebus.

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 26, 2020

The Unmaking of the Suavs

Published Post author

Florin Curta’s 1999 book “The Making of the Slavs” utilized copious verbiage to, in the end, say very little. Curta, it seems, is not done and decided to continue his adventures in Slav land with a follow up: “Slavs in the Making.” For those Suavs hoping for an exercise in masochism, the sequel will not disappoint. In chapter after chapter, geography by geography, Curt a methodically proceeds to negate the existence of any Suavic archeological culture at all or, for that matter, of Suavs, prior to, depending on the location, sometime between 600s-800s.

But there is a plus side.

In the past, Curta’s negationism and stone throwing had gotten so extreme that, by the very nature of his deconstructionist approach he was actually forced to say something affirmative about Suavic ethnogenesis. This is perfectly illustrated by the typical query about Suavs:

  • Curta disagreed with those saying there had been Suavic migrations;
  • He then also disagreed with those who said there had been Suavs in Central Europe before, say, the 6th century;
  • But then he seems to have gone on to disagree with those who claimed population continuity;

Assuming Curta did not negate the existence of “some” group calling itself Suavs in Central Europe in the present day (to be fair, he has not taken a clear position on that yet, as far as I know), he was then forced by his denialism to introduce some hypothesis for what actually happened. Some of that thinking is developed in this new book.

But let’s take a step back.

Curta did say something affirmative back in 1999. He claimed that, around the 6th century, Byzantines “constructed” the concept of Suavic identity. Of course, no one really understood what he meant. The Byzantines certainly put the Suavs on the pages of their histories but that hardly counts as identity creation. Did the Byzantines alter the genes of the people considered Suavic? Did they force them to adopt a Suavic language? (This, of course, was the same silly thesis had previously been applied to the Germanics. Thus, Curta’s thesis was neither clear (since the Germanic original wasn’t either) nor new).

(While I may not agree with the “allochtonist” view of Suavic migrations (though, frankly don’t care if it turns out to be true), at least I understand it).

Only haltingly, presumably because he did not want to say much that could itself actually be challenged, Curta eventually went on the record to propose an answer at least to the language question. Over a number of years, he tentatively suggested that it was the Avars who spread the Suavic language (see his the 2004 article “The Slavic Lingua Franca). Suavic was, in Curta’s telling, perhaps a lingua franca of the Avar khaganate.

A lingua franca Suavic may well have been but to get rid of (in his mind) Suavs as an ethnic prior to the appearance of the Avars, Curta also had to prove that Suavs that had been recorded pre-Avar times, were not – at least linguistically – Suavs. To do that Curta pointed out (quite correctly) that, after all, we do not know what language the Sclavenes spoke before the Avars showed up, notwithstanding the fact that we had their names:

“There is no evidence of the language spoken by the Sclavenes of the sixth century. Much has been made of several names mentioned in historical sources (Dauritas, Ardagastus, Peiragastus, Mezamer, Kelagast, Musocius, Dabragezas, Usigardus), but no satisfactory argument has so far been made that such names are Slavic. In addition, even if they were indeed typically Slavic, they certainly do not tell us much about the language the individuals bearing these names used for daily communication with their fellow warriors and tribesmen.”

Curta, might as well have added: “and even if they communicated in Slavic with their fellow warriors and tribesmen, this says nothing about the language they communicated with their womenfolk and servants. And even if they communicated in Slavic with their womenfolk and servants… [and so on].” 

So now, in other words, we had both the Byzantines and the Avars constructing Suavs also (at least as regards the Suavic language) but never you mind that….

In any event, Avars were, according to Curta, the mechanism for language transmission. But Curta did not say that Suavic itself was an Avar language. So, even if you went along with him, the question would still remain, where did the Suavic language come from? (and cultural patterns (though he seems (?) to deny those)? and similar genetics?).

This is where we were before his new book.

So now, over twenty years later, “Slavs in the Making” arrives and provides further development of Curta’s theories. What does it say?

Well, first, Curta notes that “some” (that is he) suggested the lingua franca hypothesis. But now he takes a new tack in trying to tackle the origin of the Suavic language. He declares it (possibly; honestly, I cannot tell whether he actually commits to this hypothesis) to have been a kind of koiné – that is a mixed dialect that arises out of other languages. This “new” koiné idea seems to have been coined by the Austrian Georg Holzer who first claimed Suavic just popped into existence in the 6th-7th century so this too is not very original (nor, frankly, sensible). (In fact, Curta, Holzer, Pohl and others seem to be feeding off of each other’s writings).

This, of course, raises another question: which existing languages contributed to the Suavic koiné? Thankfully, we do not have to wait another twenty years for an answer. Curta delivers: maybe Balto-Slavic (presumably this nomenclature has now to be changed to mean Baltic only), Thracian and some form of “Iranian” (Sarmatian?). Of course, this is, possible but given that we have little direct evidence of what those languages looked like at the time in question (and, as to Thracian, we know close to nothing about it) and certainly cannot tell how close they were to each other, his suggestion is, and is likely to remain, essentially unfalsifiable.

Moreover, a koiné is not a new language arising from other languages. By definition it comes from existing, close dialects of another language. Curta’s theory is tantamount to saying that not only were Baltic, Iranian and Thracian close, they were, in fact, forms of Suavic. Now this would be quiet interesting. It would suggest that it was the Iranians and Thracians (and Veneti?) who expanded northwards into lands formerly occupied by Germanics and Balts. Such a theory, whether true or not, could fit in with the PVL’s (and certain Polish chronicles’) story of Suavs emigrating from Pannonia.

So does Curta say that? Not quiet. But he does lay his theory out in more detail than he’s done at any time previously. As far as I can tell he says the following:

  • There was no Suavic – at all – before, say, the 7th century (Curta is mostly following Holzer)
  • Suavic is a koiné of some Iranian and Thracian (possibly) that developed mid-6th century or so;
  • It became a second language of people in the contact zone (somewhere in Pannonia);
  • it was spread (very slowly) still only as a koiné by the Avars or, possibly, some Avar induced population movements;

So… there were migrations after all (or rather there were “migrations” in some places (north of the Carpathians) but not “MIGRATIONS”).

To be honest I have to say I was slightly disappointed. I was hoping for something like a vast spaceship dropping off a few million Suavs circa 500-600 A.D. Or at least a freak experiment of a Merovingian alchemist that produced his servii. Instead, in Curta’s new book he begins to qualify his prior statements to actually try to construct something that begins to look like a working theory.

Of course, the qualify of that theory is another matter.

How did these prior language groups also lose their “original” languages (Thracian, Iranian, Baltic, Germanic)? Unclear.

What about genes? Most North and East Suavs are R1a, R1b and I1 on the father’s side. Many southern Suavs are also R1a (other I2). How is the genetic similarity to be explained? Well, Curta says it’s not really much of a similarity because R1a is present in India too. This, of course, is disingenuous. It is, of course, true that R1a is spread out far east into the “stans” and India. However, the clades that are present there are entirely different than the clades present in Europe. Obviously, at some point they were related but that point in time preceded the timeframe Curta is examining by thousands of years. Curta’s argument effectively is the same as saying that we can’t compare genetic similarities (and differences) between two populations because, after all, we’re all from Africa.

And, of course, there is all the stuff mentioned above about the practical unassailability of his koiné theory.

What else do we learn from Curta (some of this stuff is retread from volume 1 but most is new)?

  • Martin of Braga’s poem mentioning Suavs was not written by Martin of Braga (it’s, at the earliest, a 9th century work);
  • Martin of Braga was not from Pannonia in any event;
  • Jordanes knew nothing or little of Central Europe (he kept looking at geographically incorrect maps like the Tabula Peutingeriana);
  • Procopius knew nothing or little of Central Europe (so his discussion of the position of the Suavs is useless);
  • Theophyllact Simocatta’s story of the musical Suavs has nothing to do with Suavs (so they were not from the “Ocean”;
  • All the above authors were either ignorant as to the Suavic question or only used Suavs as objects in their metaphors;
  • In any event, all these sources were misinterpreted;
  • Suavs were, in Fredegar’s view, “weaklings” who were only to be used as cannon fodder;
  • Wends were different from Suavs in that they were kind of “Bastardi” (rape children of Suavic women and Avars) and so because of that extra Avar DNA, Fredegar thought they were able to defeat Dagobert;
  • Common Suavic can well be the koiné because of it is easy to learn due to its simplified structure (citing the above-mentioned Georg Holzer’s Strukturelle Besonderheiten des Urslawischen);
  • Suavic chroniclers did not have a Suavic identity (Gallus seems to have used Suav to mean peasant and Cosmas to refer to those who were socially inferior; and Nestor, well, he was just trying to make his present day Rus somehow connected to the apostolic past so that they could be like the 12 Hebrew tribes);
  • In fact, there was no Suavic identity before 1300 or so (presumably, Curta settled for this date because he otherwise would have had a hard time trying to explain away the Suavic identity of the author of the early 14th century Dalimil Chronicle).

With respect to Poland, the Avars never quite made it too far north of the Carpathians so what does Curta say about that?

Well, he takes the position that the country was largely depopulated and the Suavic language spread continued as late as the 8th century. He then states that there were movements into Poland but that they came from various directions and were probably unrelated to one another. In other words different groups penetrating from the south and east at different times. Coming closer over time and, in the meantime, presumably, using the Suavic koiné to communicate. Thereafter (?), seemingly the same mechanism resulted in the spread of this koiné into Polabia.

This is basically what – from the perspective of Poland – would be termed an “allochtonist” description. So nihil novi.

What to think of all of this?

Well, as to Western and Eastern Suavs, Curta, whether he admits it or not, basically assumes some level of migration from the initial Suavic contact zone. Which is not what he seems to have argued before. Nevertheless, this flip makes his theories at least a little bit more orthodox.

The problem I have is the koiné suggestion which underlies this entire theory. This hypothesis seems rather ridiculous with respect to a language as complicated as Suavic. I simply cannot imagine how similar dialects (& were Baltic, Iranian and Thracian even similar?) would have turned themselves – rapidly – into something as complicated as Suavic. Zamenhof’s Esperanto, it is not. Now, Curta apparently speaks a dozen languages so maybe such difficulties seem trivial to him and maybe the initial population of Suavic speakers was chockfull of such Thracian, Iranian and Baltic Curtas but that seems like a rather extensive stretch. A more likely lesson of all this is that archeologists should stick to archeology.

Incidentally, Routledge the publisher of this is also the publisher of Slavic Gods and Heroes – another “radical reinterpretation” – this time of Suavic pagan religion, yet written by Hebrew folklorists. Now, sometimes, people coming from “outside the area” may in fact bring fresh insights to problems stumping the experts. But, if you go with that approach, you should be aware that, as a rule, you will just end up with quackery.

I leave you with this thought inspired by Florin Curta (and one with which Curta, Holzer and others would, I assume, agree):

“There is no evidence of the language spoken by the Germans of antiquity. Much has been made of several names mentioned in historical sources (Segimerus, Arminius, Ucromirus, Nasua, Veleda, Masyas, Cimberius, Sido), but no satisfactory argument has so far been made that such names are Germanic. In addition, even if they were indeed typically Germanic, they certainly do not tell us much about the language the individuals bearing these names used for daily communication with their fellow warriors and tribesmen.”

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 10, 2020

Sedullius Scottus & Waltram/Waldram of Saint Gall

Published Post author

An interesting series of gems came to our attention while going through Florin Curta’s writings (in this case a reader forwarded a copy of his “Slavs in the Making” – on which at a later point) is the fact that he sometimes manages to list fairly obscure and less known sources regarding Suavic history. His latest book tries to take on Martin of Braga’s barbarian list which features Suavs (for that see here). To do so he brings up two poems that mention Suavs in a similar fashion (in singular Sclavus). Here they are:


Hartgarius Episcopus Ad Eberhardum


The first is a poem by Sedullius Scottus found in a Brussels codex (10615-729 or perhaps 10725) at folio 214, the Hartgarius Episcopus Ad Eberhardum. Sedulius was probably an Irish monk (Siadhal? Shiel?) who migrated along with a bunch of other Irish monks to Liege in Belgium sometime between 840 and 851. The group became guests of the local bishop Hartgar, to whom Sedullius wrote a few poems (all as per R.W. Dyson from his “Sedullius Scottus De Rectoribus Christianis ‘On Christian Rulers'”). The poem in question is poem 53. The Belgians have not put up the manuscript yet so here are a couple of earlier editions. For a current version, you can see Sedulii Scotti Carmina, ed. Jean Meyers (Corpus Christianorum, Continuatio Medievalis, 117).


Item Waldrammi De Quo Supra


This is a poem by Waltram or Waldram of Saint Gall comes from a Saint Gall codex (381). The codex itself is dated to about 930. This part of a pair of poems that were written for the Emperor Charles the Fat who, apparently, swung by the Abbey of Saint Gallen in 833 (as per Curta).

Here is the original. By the way, you gotta love Carolingian minuscule – so much better than the chicken scratch writing of later medieval authors.

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 5, 2020

The Axeheads of Central/Eastern Europe – Dragon or Stag – Yasher or Leleń?

Published Post author

An interesting series of finds presents itself in various places from central Europe and Russia. Here we have a series of dragon or stag looking creature (yasher?) on, mostly, axeheads (plus stirrups and as a sword) found in the following locations:

  • Gubin/Guben, Poland/Germany
  • Żagań, Poland
  • Schaunburg, Austria
  • Vienna, Austria
  • Moscow, Russia (stirrup)
  • Olen’-Kolodez’, Voronezh Oblast, Russia
  • Florence, Italy (sword)

These were described by the Russian archeologist Vladimir Kulakov in “The Cultic Weapon of the Balts and Slavs of the 10th-12th Centuries” (Культовое оружие балтов и славян X-XII вв.) in Slavia Antiqua, 1991/1992 (volume XXII, page 115). And he repeated some of this in 2001 in “The Silver Axes of the Chieftains” (Серебряные секиры вождей). The next year after that, in 2002, we had a more detailed description by Felix Biermann in his Mittelalterliche Kriegsausrüstung mit der Darstellung eines gehornten Tieres (in Die Zeitschrift für Waffen- und Kleidungsgeschichte or Kostümkunde?). The same was then further elaborated by Normen Posselt and Paweł Szczepanik in their “Zoomorphic Applications and Representations on the Slavic Temple Rings in the Northern West Slavic Area” (Zoomorphe Applikationen und Darstellungen auf slawischen Schläfenringen im nördlichen westslawischen Raum) in Beiträge zur Ur- und FrühgeschichteMitteleuropas 82, 2017, pages 193-220.

Here are some of the pictures from the above articles in some more detail. A further set of publications is listed in Biermann’s article.


Gubin/Guben, Poland/Germany

This was found on the land of a certain wine dealer, Mr. Pötko of Osterberg street in Guben in 1884. It was lost in 1945. First reported by Jentsch in the Zeitschrift für Ethnologie, Volume 15.


Żagań, Poland

Found in 1850. Kept at Sagan/Żagań till 1945. Not clear what happened with it afterwards.


Schaunburg, Austria

Found in 1876. Today kept in Linz, Austria.


Vienna, Austria

We know this has been in the Art History Museum in Vienna (Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien)since 1820 but provenance is unknown.


Moscow, Russia

This stirrup has been in Moscow at the State Historical Museum (formerly the Imperial Russian Historical Museum) since 1926 but the origin of its find is unknown.


Olen’-Kolodez’, Voronezh Oblast, Russia

This is the most recent discovery, found in 1996 by Yefimov in a Golden Horde kurgan from the 13th-14th century. However, it was dated by the discoverer to the 12th-13th century.

Interestingly olen, refers to a stag or deer.


Florence, Italy

Currently this sword is at the National Museum of Bargello (Museo Nazionale del Bargello) in Florence. It was an 1894-1895 gift from the Italian diplomat Francesco Costantino Giuseppe Ressman and is part of the Ressman collection. The location of the original find is unknown. According to Biermann, the museum suggests that it may have belonged to Jaxa (or Jaksa) of Miechów of the Gryf family (1120–1176). There has alway been some people who also believe that this is the same person as Jaxa of Köpenick.


What is the origin of all these axes, the sword and the stirrup? And more importantly, what is the concept behind the motif? No one knows for sure. Biermann argued that the axeheads may have come from Novgorod – at the intersection of Scandinavian, Baltic, Finnic and Asian trade routes. However, an interesting stylistic relative of the above (in my view) is the following depiction of the Karkonosze mountain “spirit”, the so-called Rübezahl, from the year 1561:

You can see the Riesenberg – Giant Mountain – just above.

Riesengebirge is the German name for the mountain range Karkonosze (Polish) / Krkonoše (Czech). Of course, they are curiously close to the Jesioniki (or Jeseníky or Gesenke and Vandal Mountains?) and both are part of the Sudetes Mountains.

On the stag/deer side, there are also potential parallels to the Polish jeleń or leleń that is a stag/deer that, apparently, may have had some divine attributes. You might look for Kazimierz Perkowski’s article on that topic (as well as pics). The Posselt-Szczepanik article mentioned above has further references to Suavic and Polish animal motifs, including stags/deer.

Turning to a dragon alternative/connection, there is also the curious fact that jaszczur means lizard in all Suavic languages, from a reconstructed (apparently) *aščerъ. Whether this was the actual name of a lizard or can be derived from the genitive case of the Name to which the lizard belongs or whose prey it is (or who also is a dragon?), is another matter. The giant Thjazzi also comes to mind, naturally.

And then there is this find of, clearly, a dragon which you can see in Schuchhardt’s Vorgeschichte von Deutschland. It was found in Strzelce Krajeńskie area (German Friedeberg). Totally different style but the same concept of a turning head. Of course, that can just be a result of trying to fit the motif in the limited space available.

 Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 3, 2020

Spruner-Menke Atlas – South Thuringia & Franconia

Published Post author

Here are some other names from the Spruner-Menke Atlas. This time we look at the “Southern Thuringia and Franconia” (Südliches Thüringen & Franken) map. Some of these names may have nothing to do with Suavs but many are highly suggestive of a connection. No doubt there are also other names on the map that may be Suavic in origin and that I missed (you are welcome to look yourself). In any event this is what there is for now. The map is shown below with all these names highlighted for your viewing pleasure. The resolution of the map is a bit crappy given the size of the file but you can verify the names online. An interesting thing to note is the stem of many of these which suggests Suavic provenance even if there is a –heim or –burg suffix attached to it.

  • Wellesberg
  • Casteniche
  • Sinziclie
  • Zsissin
  • Hormuzi (Alan?)
  • Gulise
  • Windinga
  • Vellin
  • Pomaria
  • Pruleca
  • Richinbach
  • Puhile
  • Deninheim
  • Bubinheim
  • Oppinheim
  • Wizzinheim
  • Chincinbach
  • Gruonincheim
  • Gozotvesheim
  • Stetin
  • Hornowa
  • Prichina
  • Wilina
  • Nasina
  • Hwilina river
  • Gronowa
  • Vullinstat
  • Babestat
  • Durnina
  • Wissilafa river
  • Wellithi
  • Adarna river
  • Grabanowa
  • Swarzaha
  • another Swarzaha
  • Iazaha river
  • Strewa river
  • Suabaha
  • Cinna, Cenna
  • Iechaburg
  • Winidon area
  • Babenberch
  • Camerin
  • Nendinin
  • Wizinburc
  • Bargi, Barigin
  • Pluncina (?)
  • Durnin
  • Crusina, Chrusna
  • Lesten
  • Schada
  • Konitz
  • Breasewitz
  • Ohroganice
  • Butuce (?)
  • Ruceschesece
  • Strupenice
  • Gliza river
  • Bungelin
  • Millinge
  • Lizichesdorf
  • Grodzane
  • Kizzerin
  • Dribura
  • Liubisci
  • Gruza
  • Butice
  • Vicinburg
  • Cucinburg
  • Surbana river
  • Scornashova
  • Chruchenperg
  • Ginginchova
  • Grawat
  • Sichowa
  • Retsiz

Note that there are a number of other, clearly Suavic, names in the NE part of the map which I do not list here for the obvious reason that they require no mention (also some have already been mentioned in the prior Saxony Sprunker Menke map description here). I still show them in red so that you can see their extent.

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 2, 2020

Solawas

Published Post author

Keeping with the themes from the prior article, note that the “Scientific Magazine of the Ossoliński Public Library” (Czasopism Naukowy Księgozbioru Publicznego imienia Ossolińskich) has the following statement in an article by the priest Franciszek Siarczyński from the magazine’s inaugural issue in 1828 “An Essay As to Whether Suavs or Suovs the Proper Name [of the Suavs] Is and Which Such Name Should Be In Use.” (roughly translated) (Rozprawa, czyli Sławianie lub Słowianie zwać się i mówić właściwie maią):

“There is the following idea of how the name of Suavs arose: A foreign traveler asked a Suav who he was? The man answered ‘człowiek’ [a “man”]. The foreigner thought he heard Suoviek or Suovak, and this answer provided the name for the whole nation. Others derive the name from the town Skuova on the Dnieper [Šklov/Shkloŭ/Шклоў in today’s Belarus]; others from the river Łaba, that is Elbe, also called Selawa.”

Now, Elbe may or not have been called Selawa but the Thuringian Saale certainly has been and continues to be called Solawa/Solava/Soława by the Sorbs. Of course, this region is also where the ancient writers thought the river Suevus flowed which also gave its name to the Suevi (or vice versa). Sałowa, Salówka and similar names also appear in other areas. An interesting question is whether some or all these names have something to do with zalewa, that is, [the river] that floods. (For Suevi as Uebi (from Łaba), see here, of course, łeb also means “head”).

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

July 1, 2020

Ein Mensch Namens Slawack

Published Post author

I love the fact that we basically ignore the Polabian where it could prove to solve a number of Suavic of Slavic mysteries.

The Monsieur de Baucoeur states in his “Wendische Vocabeln” that the following is the Wendish word for Mensch that is “human” or “man”:

  • Slawa or Slawack

The latter – Slawack – is also apparently listed by Johann Parum Schultze – with the same meaning.

This basically corresponds to the Polish człowiek.

Now this should make you think as it immediately solves the etymology of Slav – “man/human/person”. Perhaps, in a slight twist, a man that speaks our language (Suovy) but that may well be a secondary meaning.

I am not saying that this is the only plausible explanation of that word.

For example, the river Solawa (Saale) also does so.

Further, a Suav or Slav is listed in some chronicles as the apparently eponymous father of the Suavs/Slavs. Then the Suavs/Slavs would simply “his people”. Similar things are known from other Slavic tribes who took patronymics as their designations. Just a few are Lechici (Licikaviki) or Leszkowice from Lech or in the East Vyatyche from Vyatko or Radzimitsche from Radzim.

So there you go.

Copyright ©2020 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

June 3, 2020