On the Veneti in Tacitus’ Germania


Sarmatian Veneti in 
Tacitus’ Germania (about 98 A.D.)

The relevant parts of Tacitus’ account begin with the discussion of several tribes, some of whom are clearly described by the author as non-Germanic (chapter 43).  Tacitus writes:

“Nor less powerful are the several people beyond them [Nariscans, Marcomanians and Quadians]; namely, the Marsignians, the Gothinians (?), the Osians and the Burians, who altogether enclose/follow the Marcomanians and Quadians behind. Of those, the Marsignians and the Burians in speech and dress resemble the Suevians. From the Gallic language spoken by the Gothinians, and from that of Pannonia by the Osians, it is manifest that neither of these people are Germans; as it is also from their bearing to pay tribute. Upon them as upon aliens their tribute is imposed, partly by the Sarmatians, partly by the Quadians. The Gothinians, to heighten their disgrace, are forced to labor in the iron mines. By all these several nations but little level country is possessed: they are seated amongst forests, and upon the ridges and declivities of mountains. For, Suevia is parted by a continual ridge of mountains; beyond which, live many distinct [other] nations. Of these the Lygians are most numerous and extensive, and spread into several communities. It will suffice to mention the most puissant; even the Arians (?), Helvicones, Manimians; Elysians and Naharvalians.”

(Retro Marsigni, Cotini, Osi, Buri terga Marcomanorum Quadorumque claudunt. E quibus Marsigni et Buri sermone cultuque Suevos referunt: Cotinos Gallica, Osos Pannonica lingua coarguit non esse Germanos, et quod tributa patiuntur.  Partem tributorum Sarmatae, partem Quadi ut alienigenis imponunt: Cotini, quo magis pudeat, et ferrum effodiunt. Omnesque hi populi pauca campestrium, ceterum saltus et vertices montium iugumque insederunt. Dirimit enim scinditque Sueviam continuum montium iugum, ultra quod plurimae gentes agunt, ex quibus latissime patet Lygiorum nomen in plures civitates diffusum. Valentissimas nominasse sufficiet, Harios, Helveconas, Manimos, Helisios, Nahanarvalos.)

Beyond these Lygians, Tacitus then lists (chapter 44) the Gothones and, “immediately adjoining” them, the Rugians and Lemovians “upon the coast of the ocean.” Then the Suiones/Suionas, “situated in the ocean itself,” and the bordering Sitones/Sitonum.  Here Tacitus also mentions the Aestii (chapter 45).

So now, seemingly going from the Southwest to the Northeast we come, in chapter 46 of Germaniae, to the end of Suevia:

“Here Suevia ends. I do not know whether to class the tribes of the Peucini, Venedi, and Fenni with the Germans or with the Sarmatians. The Peucini, however, who are sometimes called Bastarnae, are like Germans in their language, manner of life, and mode of settlement and habitation. Squalor is universal among them and their nobles are indolent. Mixed marriages are giving them something of the repulsive appearance of the Sarmatians.”*

(Hic Sueviae finis. Peucinorum Venedorum que et Fennorum nationes Germanis an Sarmatis adscribam dubito, quamquam Peucini, quos quidam Bastarnas vocant, sermone, cultu, sede ac domiciliis ut Germani agunt. Sordes omnium ac torpor procerum; conubiis mixtis nonnihil in Sarmatarum habitum foedantur.)

Thereafter:

“The Venedi have adopted many Sarmatian habits; for their plundering forays take them over all the wooded and mountainous highlands that lie between the Peucini and the Fenni. Nevertheless, they are on the whole to be classed as Germans; for they have settled homes, carry shields, and are fond of traveling – and traveling fast – on foot, differing in all these respects from the Sarmatians, who live in wagons or on horseback.”*

(Venedi multum ex moribus traxerunt; nam quidquid inter Peucinos Fennosque silvarum ac montium erigitur latrociniis pererrant. Hi tamen inter Germanos potius referuntur, quia et domos figunt et scuta gestant et pedum usu ac pernicitate gaudent: quae omnia diversa Sarmatis sunt in plaustro equoque viventibus.)

Then some more on the Fenni (Finns (?)):

“The Fenni are astonishingly savage and disgustingly poor. They have no proper weapons, no horses, no homes. they eat wild herbs, dress in skins, and sleep on the ground…”

(Fennis mira feritas, foeda paupertas: non arma, non equi, non penates; victui herba, vestitui pelles, cubile humus…)

So where does this all leave us so far?

First, it is apparent that Germaniae was a geographical entity in the eyes of the Romans that encompassed groups other than “Germans” sensu stricto.

Second, it is interesting to note that Tacitus has difficulties deciding whether any of the peoples relevant to our discussions that is the Veneti or peoples who live next to them should be considered Germans or Sarmatians (these being the two categories that he is willing to entertain for them).  Importantly, he also takes us through his ethnic classification thinking process.

He notes that, as to the Peucini, they should be viewed probably as Germans on account of their language, way of life but too on account of their squalor and indolence (or at least of that of their leadership).  Let’s leave out the typical German squalor and indolence aside.  We are told that one of the distinguishing characteristic here was:

1) language – presumably Germanic was different from Sarmatian;

But too, the “way of life”.  What does Tacitus think is the German vs Sarmatian way of life? We learn from his description of the Veneti that the following factors were apparently relevant here:

2) settled homes (Germans) vs nomadic life style (Sarmatians);

3) movement on foot (Germans) vs movement on horse or wagons (Sarmatians);

4) limited movement (Germans) vs wide plundering forays (Sarmatians); (this might be a function of item 2 – traveling on foot vs traveling horseback – horseback = wider range = more plundering)  (note that this is written before the Voelkerwanderung);

5) defensive armor/shields (Germans) vs no shields (?) (Sarmatians);

It would seem that, as to the Veneti, Tacitus was willing to qualify them as German because they met the German criteria at items 2, 3 and 5; on the other hand, their forays seem to have suggested to him that they were more Sarmatians with respect to item 4.  Notice he said nothing about 1 either.

This is in contrast to the Peucini who are Germans, in Tacitus’ book, on account of 1 as well as, maybe (he does not explicitly say), 2-5.

The Fenni are not discussed in a Germanic-Sarmatian taxonomy and we leave them to their nuts and berries.

So it seems that the Veneti, whoever they were, were Germanic more by custom than by ethnicity.

Third, we learn roughly where the Veneti fall in this description (end of the world or close to it) and, then more specifically, that the Veneti make their “plundering forays… over all the wooded and mountainous highlands that lie between the Peucini and the Fenni” suggesting that that is also where the Veneti “lie” i.e., between the Peucini and the Fenni.  Now if the Fenni are Finns then this might suggest that the Veneti are between the Finns and the Peucini.  We do not know who the Peucini were but, a reasonable guess would be that they lived south of the Finns as the Finns are almost the last people listed (going South to North).  Now, the Aestii, the Suitones and Sitones were mentioned first which, if Aestii means Estonians and if Estonians were where they are now and if being listed “first” (even if in a different chapter) means that you come “first” when seen from the South or West, then this would put the Peucini and the Veneti either North or East of them (i.e., of the Aestii) – somewhere around Novgorod or Petersburg of today (in fact, in the Estonian and Finnish languages, Russian is referred to as Venedi).

Fourth, Tacitus never mentions the Vandals.  They do not exist as a tribe or a confederation of tribes in his list.  The Goths do.  The Langobards do.  The Suevi (hmmmm…) do.  But not the Vandals.  It seems that as of 98 A.D., at least, there were no Vandals.*

Of course, none of this proves a Slav-Veneti link conclusively.  One might legitimately ask the question too whether, even if they were at the mouth of the Vistula, could the Veneti just have been the ancient Prussians/Lithuanians/Latvians or some variation thereof?

* Tacitus does mention an ancient descendant of the Germanic God Tuisco whose name was Vandilij and that some nation may have corresponded to that name but he does not then list this god or people as an existing tribe: “In their ancient songs, their only way of remembering or recording the past they celebrate an earth-born god Tuisco, and his son Mannus, as the origin of their race, as their founders. To Mannus they assign three sons, from whose names, they say, the coast tribes are called Ingaevones; those of the interior, Herminones; all the rest, Istaevones. Some, with the freedom of conjecture permitted by antiquity, assert that the god had several descendants, and the nation several appellations, as Marsi, Gambrivii, Suevi, Vandilij, and that these are nine old names.”

* note – the same “Veneti” passage has been translated in slightly different ways.  The above translation is Harold Mattingly’s.  That was a 1948 translation later used by Penguin in its Germania.  We include here other translations.

The same from Thomas Gordon’s 18th century translation:

“Whether amongst the Sarmatians or the Germans I ought to account the Peucinians, the Venedians, and the Fennians, is what I cannot determine; though the Peucinians, whom some call Basstarnians, speak the same language with the Germans, use the same attire, build like them, and live like them, in that dirtiness and sloth so common to all. Somewhat they are corrupted into the fashion of the Sarmatians by the inter-marriages of the principal sort with that nation: from whence [the Sarmatians] the Venedians have derived very many of their customs and a great resemblance. For they are continually traversing and infesting with robberies all the forests and mountains lying between the Peucinians and Fennians. Yet they are rather reckoned amongst the Germans, for that they have fixed houses, and carry shields, and prefer travelling on foot, and excel in swiftness.”

 

The same from the Church/Brodribb translation:

“As to the tribes of the Peucini, Veneti, and Fenni I am in doubt whether I should class them with the Germans or the Sarmatæ, although indeed the Peucini called by some Bastarnæ, are like Germans in their language, mode of life, and in the permanence of their settlements. They all live in filth and sloth, and by the intermarriages of the chiefs they are becoming in some degree debased into a resemblance to the Sarmatæ. The Veneti have borrowed largely from the Sarmatian character; in their plundering expeditions they roam over the whole extent of forest and mountain between the Peucini and Fenni. They are however to be rather referred to the German race, for they have fixed habitations carry shields, and delight in strength and fleetness of foot, thus presenting a complete contrast to the Sarmatæ, who live in waggons and on horseback.”

Copyright ©2014 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

September 6, 2014

12 thoughts on “On the Veneti in Tacitus’ Germania

  1. Puscetus

    Do You Sir, perhaps, know anything about sarmatian “Lebus and Polebus” from Tacitus translated by John Aikin?

    Reply
    1. torino Post author

      Aikin was referring to the Alcis which are in Tacitus’ Germania and which, it had been suggested, were Castor & Pollux. He noted that there were other similar legends of divine twins, including Lel and Polel. I think that the more interesting connection is that Alcis can mean lalki, that is dolls (compare this with Elbe/Laba and a million similar transformations).

      Reply
      1. Puscetus

        Yes, I know Lel and Polel sound similar to Lebus and Polebus, but I have never heard about “sarmatian Lebus and Polebus” except Aikin’s commentary. It would be nice to know his source.

        Reply
  2. jasio

    Baltic Venedes were the last of the proto Balto-Slavonic block; some separating into Slavs by early middle Ages (Veltae or Veleti), some separated into Baltic speakers (Prussians and Lithuanians).

    Reply
    1. torino Post author

      If there was a split it would have happened probably around 1200-1500 BC or so by the time records speak of the Veneti, Slavic was a separate language. We don’t have great testimony here but, if you put any weight on Tacitus (who is less than clear on a lot of this stuff, the best candidate for the Balts are the Aestii.

      Reply
  3. jasio

    I agree with you but I read that Aesti account for only some of the Balts, not all of them. Aesti are mentioned as living more northward in present Latvia and Estonia.
    Another group, the Neuri are regarded by many historians as possibly east Balts in Belarus, in the time of Herodotus.

    Even if there was a split 1200BC, `Baltic’ was essentially Balto-Slavonic, retaining its original form while Slavonic began to depart at that time. Hence, some of the Venedes were possibly veleti, some Prutsi.

    Reply
    1. torino Post author

      No one knows where Aesti lived. Tacitus’ description is open to various interpretations. Neuri are only mentioned by Herodotus. Prusi are interesting since they seem to have also existed in Western Anatolia.

      Reply
  4. jasio

    I have read that Baltic Veneti were located between the mouth of the Vistula through eastern Prussia as far as Memel in the Sinus Venedicus. This is most probably a an early offshoot of northern Slavs but Jordanes falls into error by using Venethi as the generic name for Slavs instead of Sclavini. Jordanes even admits that the original homeland of the Venethi was at the source of the Vistula extending eastward to the Dniepr. This original homeland is not disputed generally except if one considers Poland as the original homeland of Proto-Slavs. This seems to be the only other school of thought.

    Reply
    1. torino Post author

      I don’t think anyone knows where exactly the Venethi lived save to say that it was in Central/Eastern Europe. They were presumably east of the Vistula in Ptolemy’s time or before that depending on how long it took him to get information from there. However, whether the current Vistula is the Vistula of Ptolemy or Jordanes is another matter (the description seems to work better with the Odra/Oder). And Tacitus does not even mention the Vistula.

      Reply
  5. jasio

    I have read your blog on Jordanes and agree how confusing his account maybe. Jordanes’ forefathers of Veneti (Wends), Antes and sclavini were called also Veneti and that’s why he chose Veneti for generic name for all three tribes understandably.
    The sub-group also called Veneti on the Baltic retained the original name because they were in close proximity to the original Veneti?

    Also, these Baltic Veneti seem to gravitate south when the Bastarnae and Peucini vacate the region southward and join the ranks of the Gothic migration. Is this a clue that `homeland’ shifted location at times??

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *