On Ariovistus

Before Armin-ius there was Ariovist-us.  With Arminius, oddly, once you take away the Latin -ius, the ending becomes the Slavic -in.  What happens with Ariovistus?

wieszcz

Well, first we have Ariovist.  Then we break it down to Ario-vist.  Now, we are not going to weigh in on Ario-.  (Supposedly, it is a Celtic prefix meaning “noble”).

However, -vist seems familiar.

wieszcz2

Smith’s Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology translates -vistus by  claiming it is simply the German Fürst, “a prince”.  Alternatively, the suffix is supposed to be Celtic from, as per the ever correct Wikipedia, uid-, uidi-, uissu-, meaning “perception, knowledge.”

wieszcz3

To know that -vid means knowledge one does not need to look to Celtic.  The Indian vedas have the same derivation.  In fact, so does the Polish wiedza.  But the suffix is -vist not -vid.

If you are thinking sight, as in vista, you may be right.  Assuming that is correct, we may want to ask if there is a word that expresses the concept?

wieszcz4

If you said Czech věštec, Slovak veštec or Polish wieszcz (essentially, viest) we think you could be right.  (If one accounts for the fact that the Polish mazurzenie seems to have been the correct way of talking of old, the Czech/Slovak and Polish versions would sound the same except for the -ec suffix not present in the Polish version (though there is a Polish – diminutive version – wieszczek).  What does that mean?

wieszcz5

A teller of news, a fortune teller, an augured, a seer but also – the necessarily derivative – magician, mage.  Linde’s Polish dictionary from 1814 also has the following Slavic forms visct, vjesct, vishtac.  Bruckner’s etymological dictionary concurs showing the Polish wiesc (news) to be cognate with the Avestani visti-, Indian vit-ti.

ariov

Thus, Ariovist would be a seer/magician.  And we must not forget his contemporary anti-Roman rebel commander, the Getae-Dacian chief Byrebistas, Boirebistas or Buruista/Burvista.  Again, once you eliminate the -as, you end up with Burebist or something like that.  However, as we pointed out, in Greek at least, the “b” in many places meant “v” (see, e.g., Sklabinoi, Sklaboi).

Another interpretation may be that vist meant as much as man.  Aleksander Brueckner believed that niewiasta (nye-veasta) (woman) originated from a word for a bride meaning one who was not known yet because she came from “the outside” (of the family).  Therefore, there was “no knowledge” (no wiedza or vista) of her (he analogizes the Hungarian word for son in law – igen).  However, this use appears at best secondary and at worst slightly contrived.  If one were to assume that nie-wiasta simply means “not a man” (sorry), that would match up with the vist being just a man.  The association of man with knowledge and woman with no knowledge thus seems unnecessary (or at least secondary).  The words may simply have meant man and not man (i.e., woman).

It seems entirely plausible that a vist, over time became the knowledgeable leader – wieszcz, its original meaning of “man” forgotten.  On the other hand, niewiasta (nye-veasta) may have lived on as the original name for a woman and this even after Slavic languages developed their own term for “wise woman/leader”, i.e., wieszczka.

things

When you are enjoying a vista of the Rodina, take a moment to give some thought to the sacrifices of Ariovist and Burevist

And so here we are.

Shaettner Rickover & Borg Corporation – Copyright ©2015, All Rights Reserved

 

May 26, 2015

9 thoughts on “On Ariovistus

  1. Mark Stasik

    Love your work. Huge fan and I am very appreciative of all of your focused, sober logic. Thank you. The “Cherusci” certainly sound pretty transparently “Slavic” (Suebic, I guess, given the context), and that has bothered me for some time. Anyways, I think your “Ariovistus” theory is right on target. I see it this way: “Ario”/”Ari” refers to “Aristocratic” as defined by “Equestrian”. A commander of sufficient rank to be on horseback. “Wysz”/”Vis” is something barenakedly “Slavic” whether that is a personal name, a tribal affiliation (Wisla? Wis-lanie, etc.), or a Slavic rank (like “rast”/”rasta”, “mir”, etc.) So we have “Aristocrat + Tribal-Allied commander + Latinizing suffix. That’s how I would parse it out. Conclusion of speculation? Ariovistus is a Romanized mangling of a native Slavic commander, whose real name we don’t really know. But we’re pretty sure he speaks Slavic as a first language. And that is surely just a taste of the coming revolution we are about to experience in the disentangling of the past. Has anyone done Y haplogroup analysis of Suevi cemetery remains to determine any R1a traces? I can’t find anything of the sort by Googling.
    Cheers, and thanks.
    markstasik

    Reply
  2. torino Post author

    We are not familiar with studies of Suevi cemeteries. In general, genetic research into the remains of old populations has been sparse although, we understand, some of this has been done and that R1a has been discovered in Germany. However, whether R1a – and which R1a – is a “Slavic” or “Suevic” “marker” is an entirely separate question which we will have something to say about in the future (albeit not much since we have no geneticists here). There are webpages/blogs about these issues, in more general terms, and you may have come across those.

    Reply
  3. torino Post author

    As to what language Ariovistus spoke? That is obviously a separate question. In truth we do not really know what language Slavs spoke before or (outside of “Gothic” groups) the Germans.

    Reply
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