Monthly Archives: August 2017

Lacus Podamicus

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The suffix -ow is Slavic though not always.  In the East of Germany, it is assumed that -ow endings are all or virtually all Slavic.  But what about somewhere else.  Like on Lake Constance aka the Bodensee (for the Polish Goddess Boda see here) aka Lacus Podamicus aka Lacus Veneticus aka Lacus Moesius (Musiano? Musianus?).

Here is a map of the Bodensee from 1540 with the -ow place names circled.  Other names that also sound (though, of course, not necessarily are) Slavic are underlined.

The trouble with some of these is that the suffix -gow also represents the earlier German spelling of a -gau.  Putting aside whether -gau coming from -gow may also be Slavic, note that the above names also include other -ow suffixes such as:

  • -now
  • -chow
  • -dow
  • -sow

We have not include the various “true” (?) Gau names such as Lintzgow, Algow, Turgow or Hoegow. Other names in the area include (see Johann Georg Tibianus 1603 map):

  • Raittnow (?)
  • Dieow
  • Justnow
  • Sangnow
  • Lestetten
  • Weissow
  • Lestiech
  • Radara (Redarii?)
  • Widow
  • Didow (?)
  • Gassow (?)
  • Reichenow (note that on the above map, it was still called Rychow)

For other interesting names in the area such as:

  • Belgrad
  • Grod
  • Lengatz
  • Altwinden
  • Edelitz
  • Engelitz
  • Reutin
  • Kochlin
  • Kremlen
  • Warnow

see here.

We will not follow Ketrzynski (yet) in seeing Constance (Kostnitz) as Slavic.

If you wanted to know where (at least some) Slavs come from take a look at the above.

Copyright ©2017 jassa.org All Rights Reserved

August 6, 2017

Matrem Deum Venerantur – Signs of Lada

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Tacitus’ Germania has an interesting passage in Chapter 45 regarding the so-called Aestii who are sometimes viewed as the ancestors of the Balts.

“…At this point the Suevic sea, on its eastern shore, washes the tribes of the Æstii, whose rites and fashions and style of dress are those of the Suevi, while their language is more. like the British. They worship the mother of the gods, and wear as a religious symbol the device of a wild boar. This serves as armour, and as a universal defence, rendering the votary of the goddess safe even amidst enemies. They often use clubs, iron weapons but seldom. They are more patient in cultivating corn and other produce than might be expected from the general indolence of the Germans. But they also search the deep, and are the only people who gather amber (which they call “glesum”), in the shallows, and also on the shore itself…” 

Or in Latin:

“…Trans Suionas aliud mare, pigrum ac prope inmotum, quo cingi cludique terrarum orbem hinc fides, quod extremus cadentis iam solis fulgor in ortus edurat adeo clarus, ut sidera hebetet; sonum insuper emergentis audiri formasque equorum et radios capitis adspici persuasio adicit. Illuc usque (et fama vera) tantum natura. Ergo iam dextro Suevici maris litore Aestiorum gentes adluuntur, quibus ritus habitusque Suevorum, lingua Britannicae propior. Matrem deum venerantur. Insigne superstitionis formas aprorum gestant: id pro armis omniumque tutela securum deae cultorem etiam inter hostis praestat. Rarus ferri, frequens fustium usus. Frumenta ceterosque fructus patientius quam pro solita Germanorum inertia laborant. Sed et mare scrutantur, ac soli omnium sucinum, quod ipsi glesum vocant, inter vada atque in ipso litore legunt...”


So who was this “mother of the Gods”? Rheia (Rhaetia?)? Cybele? Gaia?

Of course, no one knows the name of this Goddess but… there is a hint in Germania.

In Chapter 43 we have the following:

…It will be enough to mention the most powerful, which are the Harii, the Helvecones, the Manimi, the Helisii and the Nahanarvali. Among these last is shown a grove of immemorial sanctity. A priest in female attire has the charge of it. But the deities are described in Roman language as Castor and Pollux. Such, indeed, are the attributes of the divinity, the name being Alcis. They have no images, or, indeed, any vestige of foreign superstition, but it is as brothers and as youths that the deities are worshipped…”   

or in Latin:

“…valentissimas nominassesufficiet, Harios, Helveconas, Manimos, Helisios, Naharvalos. apud Naharvalos  antiquae religionis lucus ostenditurpraesidet sacerdos muliebri ornatuseddeos interpretatione Romana Castorem Pollucemque memorantea vis numininomen Alcisnullasimulacranullum peregrinae superstitionis vestigium; ut fratres tamen, ut iuvenes venerantur…” 


We know that one of the main Polish Gods was Lada.  Lada was also worshipped in Lithuania as we know from Stryjkowski:
And also they did not cut grain [with a sickle] by the boundary [between different fields]
Leaving that [grain] for the Earth gods to eat.
Lelus and Polelus and Ladon they had as gods
And too they had those to saw fear when defending themselves at war.
And ‘Lelu, Lelu, my Lado, Lelu, Lado!
Sang a maidens’ flock [stado] while clapping their hands,
This dance we see even today they preserve,
From May all the way to July they dance with this ‘Lado’,
Lado, Lado‘ singing, on holy evenings
It has been suggested that she was the mother of the Polish Gods Lel and Polel who were also referred to as lalki meaning puppets/dolls, perhaps referring to the fact that dolls resembled little idols.  Here is the interesting thing.  Castor’s and Pollux’s (Κάστωρ καὶ Πολυδεύκης,that is, Kastor and Polydeuces) mother was Leda.
So that’s the question:
  • Leda > Castor & Pollux

?=?

  • Lada > Lel & Polel (Lalki, that is, Alcis)

(as for Alcis > Lalki compare Ardagast > Radagast)

Thus, the “mother of the Gods” would not be the mother of all Gods but “only” of Castor and Pollux, the Dioscuri or Gemini.  Now, Pollux was Zeus’ son whereas Castor was not.  But Pollux shared his immortality with his brother.  Thus, you could stretch to view them as divine.  The other part that is interesting is that in Polish mythology Lada is mentioned as gardzyna (guardian) of Jesse or Yassa (Alado gardzyna yesse).  As we discussed, Jasion had many characteristics of Zeus (see here).  In Greek myths Iasion slept with Demeter (mother of the Gods?  Dea meter? He “fertilized” her) and was struck down (in some versions of the story for it by Zeus).  Now Zeus slept with Leda who out of that relationship bore Pollux.  The only thing remaining is to make a connection between Pollux (Pollucemque above) and Poles (or Polachs).

Copyright ©2017 jassa.org All Rights Reserved 

August 5, 2017

Suerto Rico

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Wikipedia has its uses but sometimes it’s just a joy to quote from what people put up there.  Take a look at this explanation of Suevi:

“Etymologists trace the name :

  •  from Proto-Germanic *swēbaz, either:
    • based on the Proto-Germanic root *swē- meaning “one’s own” people, or
    • on the third-person reflexive pronoun; or
  • from an earlier Indo-European root *swe- (cf. Latin suus/sua/suum and Polish “słabi,”  Sanskrit “swa”, each meaning “one’s own”).”

Putting aside that słaby (not słabi) means “weak” and not “one’s own”, a few observations are in order.

First, no one has ever seen *swēbaz.  As the asterisk indicates, it is a “reconstructed” word.  That is it is “made up”.  It’s made up in accordance with an also made-up linguistic formula but it is nevertheless made up.  The asterisk is fessing up that, well, “it seems ok but we just don’t know.”

No one has seen a *swēbaz written anywhere at any time other than in linguistic texts.  It is, to put it charitably, a guess. 

Given that, there is really no point to discussing where *swēbaz itself comes from.

But, to each their own rabbit hole.

Second, there is no established Germanic cognate here.

What?

BUT, you say, what about the Swedes!?  

What do we have here svear, svíar / suer.  And we have Tacitus’ Suiones and Adam of Bremen’s (didn’t he say the Wends were the Vinnulli though? can we trust this guy) Sweon(as) or the Norwegian Svíþjóð.  Or Svíariki.  What is the origin of this?

Wikipedia can be delightfully helpful again:

“probably from the PIE reflexive pronominal root *s(w)e, “one’s own [tribesmen/kinsmen]”;

ok, so same as above for the Suevi…

What else?

“Most scholars agree that Suiones and the attested Germanic forms of the name derive from the same Proto-Indo-European reflexive pronominal root, *s(w)e, as the Latin suus. The word must have meant “one’s own (tribesmen)”.

Ok, so same as above… What else?

“The same root and original meaning is found in the ethnonym of the Germanic tribe Suebi, preserved to this day in the name Schwaben (Swabia).”

So to sum this up:

  • we don’t know what Suevi means
  • we don’t know what Swede means
  • but to explain Suevi we use Swede
  • and to explain Swede we use Suevi
  • and, after all there is that Latin suus so that kind of makes it all work.

The conclusion of this in the Swede discussion is delightfully honest:

“The details of the phonetic development vary between different proposals.”

No doubt

Look, the fact that we have Svens in Sweden is not questionable.  The fact that these words all appear in relation to Sweden is not questionable.

BUT, none of them specifically mean “one’s own”.  You could just as easily say that Sven was a Ven (Finn? Venet?) or came “from” (“z”) there and established his own “rik”.

Or maybe like, for example, Amalasuentasuen means strong (Slavic Swiety that is Saint).  Strong Land!

Or maybe you can derive it from svit meaning dawn (in Slavic).  The Land of the Dawn!

You can do all of this and all of these sound like impressive enough “land” names for a Rik of the Swedes.  You just have to learn enough linguistics to know the jargon and then come up with a cogent enough argument.

None of these, save the Latin suus, refer to own’s own.

The sue can just as easily refer to “swaing”, “swearing” or whatever else you want.

Third, there is a word in Germanic languages for that but it seems to have an “L” in it:

  • self
  • selb
  • zelb
  • själv
  • selv
  • sjálf
  • silba (Gothic)

So where did the “l” come from and why do the Suevi not have it.

(Of course you could add an “L” to the word Suevi but then you’ll just  get something resembling “Slav”)

Can you name a language (outside of Latin-based languages and present in the same locality as the Suevic presumably was) in which SUO or SVO really does have an attested and, indeed, current meaning of “own’s own”?

Here is a hint:

Sami Swoi (= solely our peeps)

Swo-boda (= freedom or “one’s own body/life”) (see here)

Swa-wola (= free-will)

These are from Polish but other Slavic languages have the same or similar forms.

For more on this exciting topic see here (or really anywhere on the site).

don’t bother getting up – it’s just going to get worse and she’ll go to Flavor Flav anyway

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August 2, 2017

Altsomething Namenbuch

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Ernst Forstemann, a librarian in Dresden, should have a statue placed in every Central European capital for shedding (even if inadvertently?) light on Germania‘s history.  His Altdeutsches Namenbuch is a joy to look at every time.

Here are some names he mentioned:

Purchowa (Burgau, Thuringia) – mentioned as Purchowa marcha in 964 

Jochowa (Jachenau, Bavaria) – mention of Eberhardus de Jochowa in about 1121

Suabowa (near Kloster Rheinau) – mentioned in 870 …ie vel nocte usque Suabowa, ab eodem autem omni tempore in utraque Reni. parte usque locum qua Tura

Sichowa (Seugenhof or Seigenhof near Eschlkam/Regensburg) – mentioned in 9th century; also in 1086; compare with Sichow by Legnica, Silesia, Poland and by Lviv in Ukraine

Jezowa (Jezowa, Silesia) – mentioned in 11th century

Malinowa (Mallau near Mannheim/Heidelberg) – in malinowa mentioned in 771, 782

Winidowa – mentioned in 892

Ostowa (Osthoffen near Strassburg) – mentioned in 784, 838

Here is a map of these places.

Now -awa supposedly refers to “water” for Wasser is not enough apparently – but neither is -awa quite enough and so -owa must also be Germanic.  For example, Czestochowa – learning something everyday!

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August 1, 2017